Culligan Medalist WS setting recommendations?

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by HiccaBurp, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. HiccaBurp

    HiccaBurp New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Wauconda, IL
    When we bought our house, the Culligan Medalist 8" WS was already installed in the home. However, we never met the owners and there was no instructions on setting the WS. Can I get a base for setting and going from there? I don't feel like spending $100 for a service call as I'd rather spend it towards a newer better WS. Here are the facts...

    2 adults, 3 small children, 1 female teenager(long hair!!) and a grandparent part of the year.
    3 full bathrooms(eventually 4) and 2 kitchens
    28 grains of hardness?? We had a Kinetco WS salesman come out. He tested the water and said the figure. I'm planning on taking my own sample and sending out asap. I've got some pool strips I can use to show hardness if that helps?

    The settings the Culligan has is..
    1. TOR(time of regen) I've got this set for 2 am
    2. SLTP(Salt dosage) - I've got no clue what to set this at
    3. BUU(backwash time) - Again, no clue what I should start with
    4. BR(brine rinse time) - HUH? lol..
    5. CAP(Regeneration Interval-time clock) - again, not sure.

    Again, I'm looking at upgrading the system so don't want to waste money in the meantime. Just would like it to function somewhat well till we do decide.

    Any help would be appreciated!!
  2. rjh2o

    rjh2o Member

    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Michigan
  3. HiccaBurp

    HiccaBurp New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Wauconda, IL
    Thanks RJ. This is a set per day unit.. not metered :( The previous owner was cheap! Also, there was only 2, maybe 3 people living here when they purchased the softener. I completely know it's inefficient for us. However, earlier this year I purchased a Aquasana Rhino whole house filtration system. Then last month I replaced the pressure tank and all the fittings(old one blew it's diaphragm). I'm researching what is best bang for my money in WS. I plan on replacing in the next couple months if finances allow(4 kids!!). I'm looking at some Fleck units I can purchase online and install myself. In the meantime, I'd like this to work as well as possible.
  4. rjh2o

    rjh2o Member

    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Michigan
    28 grain water, 6 people. I would suggest a fleck 9100 twin tank 10x54 tanks (45k per tank) 90k total. Good piece of equipment for growing family like yours and will be more efficient then a single tank in your application. They are available on-line for 1200-1300, very good buy.
    RJ
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    If you compare a regular 1.5cuft to a twin with two 1.5cuft tanks, to get the same K of capacity out of the 1.5 cuft of resin, you would program the K of capacity, salt dose and length of time for backwash, rinse etc. identically, so how would the twin be more efficient remembering that the twin uses capacity to regenerate each tank with? And more efficient in what area; salt or water use?

    Also, you aren't proposing he program 45K @ 23 lbs of salt are you?
  6. HiccaBurp

    HiccaBurp New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Wauconda, IL
    Thanks RJ. The place I purchased my pressure tank was great service and price. I found this on their website that looks interesting? http://www.aquascience.net/water-softeners/index.cfm?id=660


    What is this that Gary Slusser is talking about? Do dual tanks not work as good as single tanks? Is there a single tank available that would meet my needs?

    Thanks for any info!!
  7. teve

    teve New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Gary,
    I'm no expert and correct me if I am wrong but,

    Isn't the main efficiency of a dual tank, metered system that you don't have to regenerate earlier in order to provide a reserve (or else provide the house with hard water while it regenerates)? The more often a single tank system would be regenerating early and wasting an unused portion of a large reserve the more sense it would make to have a dual tank system. Each tank can regenerate when fully exhausted rather than earlier as a single tank system would to provide reserve. It seems the system would be more efficient for salt and water by simply regenerating less often but I would think should be weighed against the extra cost of a dual tank system. But then, does a dual tank system last twice as long since each tank (actually resin) only works half time?

    And doesn't the same softening capacity always get used no matter how regeneration is done in a single or dual tank system? Where would the difference be if any?
  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Twin tank softeners work just fine, but they are not more efficient than a regular same cuft softener if they both are set to produce the same K of capacity.

    Yes a correctly sized regular (two tank) softener will fit any household's need unless water is being used 24 hrs/day; then you'd need a correctly sized twin tank type softener.
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You're right but a victim of marketing hype that hasn't mentioned that each regeneration of a twin tank softener resin tank takes/uses/requires capacity. That capacity is created by using salt because each tank is regenerated with softened water.

    So until that is taken into account, no one knows what efficiency the twin tank has, right? AND IF... a same cuft two tank/regular softener is programed for the same K of capacity, which requires the same number of lbs of salt to create it no matter what type softener, there is no salt savings. Right?

    Remember that they are both set for the same capacity and salt dose, so the salt efficiency is the same. So all that is left is water use and, for proper backwash the gallons used should be the same or the one using less water is going to have insufficient backwash which shortens resin life.

    See above.

    With both types programmed for the same capacity and salt use per regeneration, they both use the same lbs of salt per tank and both softeners have the same number of gallons on their meters.

    Also, with a regular softener having a reserve, if any of the reserve is used, your two tank doesn't regenerate as often so you will get fewer regenerations. Getting into the reserve can happen more frequently than not simply due to extra water useage and the regeneration being delayed until the usual 2:00 AM.

    Yes the twin tank costs much more than a regular two tank softener and the regular two tank softener has less probably of something going wrong because the control valve is much simpler and has many fewer parts to go wrong over time. The regular softener is much easier to troubleshoot too and most any DIYer can fix them; not so with a twin tank control valve.

    Resin lasts a long time and is much less expensive than the difference in price of a twin tank so you could replace resin a number of times and still save hundreds of dollars, but usually resin doesn't go bad and if the two different type softeners were on the same water, both resins would go bad at the same time but you have twice as much in a twin tank softener.

    Yes both would be programmed for the same K of capacity... You don't run your vehicles' fuel tanks empty before refueling right? And the gas left in the tanks has nothing to do with the vehicles fuel efficiency, it's how much gas has been used (like salt used in a softener) right?

    All this is for a regular twin tank type softener that uses water from/through one tank at a time, there are twins that use water from both tanks at the same time UNTIL one tank is regenerating. That cuts the constant SFR gpm of the softener in half. That type usually does not have a backwash cycle or freeboard space above the resin and the resin is captive and not allowed to expand. IMO they should not be used for residential softening.
  10. teve

    teve New Member

    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I'm trying to follow what you are saying. I think we agree that regenerating less often and getting full capacity out of a regeneration is more efficient in water and salt in the long run simply because you simply use less of both, but that has to be weighed against the extra cost and any hassle a dual tank system might have.

    You said, "Yes the twin tank costs much more than a regular two tank softener...". I am not sure what you mean by "twin' vs "two" tank. What is the difference? Are there two tank systems where each tank has its own valve?

    I am not clear on something. You seem to be saying there is a difference in regenerating with incoming soft water in a dual tank system vs hard water in a single tank system. I'm not sure what difference you are referring to.

    Isn't softening capacity used during a tank regeneration pretty much the same in the two systems? When one tank is regenerated in the dual system, softening capacity can be taken from the other tank. But in the single tank system, regenerating with hard water, the water gets softened during backwash and rinse, doesn't it? Doesn't the same softening capacity get used as in the dual system during regeneration? In the end, during each tank regeneration, doesn't the same amount of water get used, softened, and drained? Is soft water brine any better than hard water brine in this case?
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    No we don't agree.... The K of capacity of all softeners is adjustable. The max K of a 1.5' is 45,000 @ 22.5 lbs of salt (15 lbs/cuft). That gives you a 45000/ by 22.5 = 2000 grains/lb efficiency. That's like driving your car at max RPM all the time and the worst fuel efficiency the car can get. 2000 g/lb is the worst salt efficiency. No one that understands salt efficiency would use the max salt dose or you could say the max K of capacity per cuft of resin.

    Yes the fewer regens = better salt and water use efficiency and a single resin tank and separate salt tank (two tank) softener with a reserve will regenerate less frequently than a twin every time the water use goes past 0 gallons on the meter (into the reserve capacity).

    Autotrol makes a twin tank apparatus using a valve on each resin tank, and Clack has something like that using 2 regular valves but industry standard is one valve controlling two tanks.

    Resin is regenerated during the brining/slow rinse cycle. Except for the brine refill water, the backwash etc. water does not get softened.

    Only the twin tank type softener uses capacity to regenerate with, a two tank does not.

    The vast majority of softeners are two tank models and use hard water brine refill. Or, only twin tank softeners use softened water for brine refill, which uses capacity,

    To learn more about salt efficiency click the link in my signature.
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