Box capacity exceeded, need advice

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by Bassman, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Just when everything was going so well...
    Over the range I have installed a 21 cu. inch adjustable Carlon box. There are four pieces of 14/2 that get tied together and one 12/2 that is to be wired to the single receptacle for the range hood. That exceeds the capacity of the box if I figure correctly. A standard box extender might save me (I can adjust the box back into the wall quite a bit) but it doesn't fit over the adjusting screw for the box.

    Options?
    1-cut away the extension to fit over the adjusting screw in the box
    2-extend the box in some other way on the inside surface of the cabinet
    3-stuff it all in and hope nobody notices
    3-Go into the garage on the other side of the wall and rewire
    4-remove the cabinet and rewire-I didn't really say that.

    Any advice is most welcome, thanks.
  2. Alectrician

    Alectrician DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    689
    It's all about the make up.

    Make it up cleanly and no one will notice. If the wiring all enters from the top, just cut them so they will fold up once. If they are coming in top and bottom you need more wire but still can be done.


    And....do your make up on rough in next time!!
  3. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Thanks! The inspector didn't spot this one.
  4. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    Despite when make-up is done, it is still a violation.

    My only questions are:

    1. Why did you use 12 to feed the single receptacle instead of 14?
    2. Is there a device in this box, or is it all just make-up?
  5. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    MAN! You never cease to amaze me! You are actually condoning putting 27.25 cu/in of wire in a 21cu/in box????? Are you for real??

    OK, maybe this is not a "burn the house down" or "easily kill someone" violation, but IT IS STILL A SERIOUS VIOLATION! And on boards like this we DO NOT give advice to DIYers that promotes any install that is in violation of codes. That is a plain fact that you need to accept. If you don't you'd better get used to changing names a lot because you are bound to get yourself banned from quite a few sites.
    I know if you repeatedly did this on a site I moderated you'd be gone.
  6. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    Bassman, why the receptacle? Is this for an OTR micro? Or a range hood?
  7. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,540
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ditto .
  8. Alectrician

    Alectrician DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    689
    Here we go again


    A SERIOUS violation? Spare me.

    One time I was up in an attic and I dropped one of the jbox coverplate screws in the insulation so I only used one screw to attach the cover. Another time I installed a QP breaker instead of an MP.

    Yeah, I am one dangerous individual.


    Tell me Pete. Do you ever drive 1 MPH over the speed limit? Of course you do so maybe you should .....how to I say this politely???....I can't express my thoughts in a manner fitting this particular forum so use your imagination. It's generally expressed by using four capital letters implying keep your mouth shut.

    .

    I beg to differ. Read my post.


    Uhh...yeah. That would be traumatic.


    Link please?
  9. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    I understand it's a violation, I'm trying to gain some knowledge as to how to correct it. I appreciate your input.
    One 14 feeds the other three which are stubs to under counter lighting. The 12 is for the range hood receptacle in the same box. I'm planning on putting a single receptacle in, not a duplex. I'm not sure what everyone means by "make-up".

    BTW, this box was roughed by an electrician. He would have fixed it, but I needed to move ahead and he's not available for another week.
  10. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Petey,
    Yeah, a range hood.
  11. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    NO. Here YOU go again.


    Not major, but YES, serious.
    Let me give you an example. A minor violation IMO would be one or two inches over the capacity. This is over SIX. Box fills are pretty liberal as it is.
    One or two inches over I have certainly done a couple of times over the years myself.
    While I am a serious non-violator type, I do have the opinion that there are serious and not-so-serious violations. An inch or two over box fill it not so serious.



    Actually I drive quite a bit over th limit. I like to keep up with traffic you know.



    There's three. Find them yourself.
  12. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    Remove the 12/2 from the box and hard wire the hood. Violation gone.
  13. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Way too easy, my head is swimming........ Let me just say, "duh!". Now if I can do it with minimal mess...
    Thanks Petey
  14. 480sparky

    480sparky In the Trades

    Messages:
    149
    The only problem with this analogy is that once you stop driving, you are no longer a danger.

    But a code violation will continue to be a code violation until (if) it gets fixed.

    The physical process of splicing the wires.

    This box has not been 'made-up':
    [​IMG]

    The same box during 'make-up':
    [​IMG]


    Now it has a completed 'make-up':
    [​IMG]
  15. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Thanks Sparky, the box is indeed not made up yet. Remind me never to wire a log cabin. I'm going to have to bust into the wall from the other side to correct this. In a log house I'd be SOL. Luckily the other side is an unfinished garage and I won't have to spend any time making the patch look nice.
  16. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

    The other problem with the driving-the-speed-limit analogy is that we're not talking about what you do. We're talking about what you're advising people to do.

    Better analogy'd be a driving instructor, teaching people that it's okay to drive over the limit. And burn a red light if nobody's coming. Or cross the line a bit on curves, on deserted winding roads...
  17. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    It's done, thank you gentlemen.
    [​IMG]
  18. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    There ya go! Looks fine.
    You'll likely have to move the 12/2 over to the left just a bit when the hood gets mounted. No big deal since the hood will cover anything you do.
  19. BrianJohn

    BrianJohn DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    VA
    I do not know AL and he may be the worlds best BUT

    This is a typical almost an electrician response.

    I perform independent inspections (among other things) and it is my experience that electricians that say, "come on it is only a ______________". It is not that big a deal.


    This is an excuse they are using EVERYDAY.

    You are either 100% or not.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2007
  20. Bassman

    Bassman DIY Member

    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Ventura, CA
    Thanks again for the advice. The wire is exactly where the knockout on the hood is, so installation should be straight forward. The motor is a separate unit that goes inside the cabinet and fastened to the hood. It has a pre-installed power cord that plugs into one on the hood.
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