Best Skirted Toilet for Guest Bath? Nexus, Maris or Aquia?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Julie Tomoser, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Julie Tomoser

    Julie Tomoser New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, Nebraska
    We are remodeling and our guest bath will need a new toilet. The old toilet had a 5 gallon tank. I know the newer toilets will be totally different so our expectations have to be reasonable. We have narrowed our choices to the Nexus, Maris and Aquia. I have heard the eco versions do pretty good compared to their 1.6 counterparts. I can go either way as long as it does the job. Besides it needing to be a skirted toilet, my next criteria would have to be good bowl wash. I am a little nervous when I hear about streaking as this will be a guest bath. There is not a lot of information about the Meris floor model. I only knew of it when I visited the Toto showroom today and didn't recognize it as one I'd seen on the Toto website. The search on the Toto website doesn't even include it when you choose "skirted" as one of the search criteria. I believe it just came out the fall of 2012. There isn't a lot of real life experience documented for the Maris. I know the Maris has the dual flush and the Sanagloss. The Nexus and Aquia don't. Does Sanaglass make THAT much of a difference? Will parts be that hard or expensive to get for the Maris compared to the other two?

    Thanks for your assistance, this is a great site!

    Julie
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  2. colleenyee

    colleenyee New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Chatham Ontario
    from my research i thought it would be the maris cst484cemfg

    but i would love to hear from the professionals about this, as the last post on this toilet was when it was new and they couldn't comment on it's parts or performance

    I see great and bad reviews on consumer websites which confuses me. How can one model get both good and bad reviews? is there fake totos out there? Are there factors that can downgrade their performance?

    how would it compare to the toto supreme II?
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  3. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,868
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Julie, here are some thoughts in no particular order.

    First, you are sure that those are the three that you like? You are sure you have seen all the skirted ones? I notice that you are not interested in the Vespin II or the Carlyle II, which are the skirted versions of the extremely-popular Drake II and Ultramax II, respectively.

    That said, probably any one of the ones you selected would make you very happy. Each of them has a different flush. Maris is double-cyclone dual-flush. Nexus is EMax. Aquia is washdown.

    Starting with the floor mount Maris. I have to think that it is on the way to being discontinued. It has been eliminated from any links on the Toto web site. You used to just be able to call it up with Maris as a search. That ended, and only the wall-mount came up. But they forgot to pull it from the CalGreen Toilets list, and you could get the link that way. They recently revised that list to add the new Original Drake tank, and deleted the Maris link. So it's basically done. I'm sure there are Marises out there, but if it matters that it's discontinued, then it is. Don't know why it wasn't more-accepted, whether it was function or not. Toto had tried to combine everything into one toilet: dual-flush, double-cyclone, sanagloss, Universal Height. It's not bad looking, but for some reason they didn't pursue it.

    Nexus. CST794EF. This is a Universal Height toilet with an EMax flush. No sanagloss. We have 2 toilets without Sanagloss and one with. The Sanagloss helps, but it's far from essential. The EMax flush is powerful and effective. The bowl-cleaning water goes down the sides through rim holes and much of the water to accomplish the flush comes out the siphon jet at the bottom. Very effective at flushing. Good at bowl-cleaning but not the absolute best. That's why they came out with the double-cyclone. It's a great toilet though, and it's not like you're going to have a lot of streaking problems. It's just shades of grey.

    Aquia. This is a toilet that Terry says basically nobody returns. He has like a 99+ percentage no-return rate on it over the years. He says people install one, and then come back and order more. It has dual-flush. One model comes in Universal Height, one without Universal Height. No Sanagloss. Aquia has a washdown flush, meaning that it has no siphon jet at the bottom to eject the waste, but rather all the water used in the flush rushes down the sides of the bowl. This likely provides very good bowl wash and a decent flush. There are videos online of it in operation. Again, Terry has expressed in many posts that this is a toilet that when people try it, they come back for another one. So on an actual-customer-acceptance basis from a guy who has sold literally hundreds of Aquias alone and thousands of toilets in total, it's clearly one to seriously-consider from a performance perspective.

    Any one of these would be satisfactory. Just pick a style you like. But if you want maximum bowl wash, I would go with the Aquia.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  4. colleenyee

    colleenyee New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Chatham Ontario
    thank you for information regarding the maris i really liked the looks of it as well and thought the dual cyclone put it over the top, my contractor told me it was on 17 week back order which made me think it was really popular.
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,868
    Location:
    New York, NY
    It may well be that they're just having trouble producing it or something. But the fact that it's off the web site suggests that either it was prematurely-released or that it's on the way out. As to performance, it has a >1000 MAP rating, so it should flush okay. I understand your logic; I just don't know what happened with it. The major online places no longer seem to have it even listed and there are a few floating around, but again I'm thinking that it's on the way out.
  6. Julie Tomoser

    Julie Tomoser New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, Nebraska
    More questions... water line specs, loudness, water spot, odor?

    Thank you very much for your detailed description. I had looked at the Vespin II and Carlyle II before. They ARE great toilets but for my guest bathroom I prefer the look of the FULL skirt over the bowl in addition to the concealed trap. The other skirted choices are over my budget and I don't like the thickness of the base as I have a small guest bath or they are too ornate. I do plan to buy the Vespin II for our boys bathroom when we get to that remodel.

    I was looking at the specs for all 3 of my narrowed down choices and realized the final choice may have already been made for me due to the suggested installation measurements unless there is a way to get around these suggestions without moving the water supply line.

    Our water supply line is 6 inches high and 6 inches away from the center of the drain for the waste. It sticks out 3.75 inches.

    The Maris will not fit as it suggests 6 inches high and 8 inches from center. The base is wider too at 10 5/8.
    Both the Aquia CST412MF and the Aquia II CST416M won't fit either, they each suggests 6 inches high and 7 3/4 inches from center. Is there any reason why the Aquia just can't be a little closer to the line since the base is 10"?

    That brings my choices to:
    The Aquia MS654114MF one piece will fit as it suggests 6 inches high and 6 inches from center. The base is widest of all of them at 11 5/8 but it appears that the water supply is behind the back. Is that right? However my husband prefers the 2 piece in case the bowl or tank need to be replaced you only have to replace 1/2 the toilet.
    The Eco Nexus CST794EF and Nexus CST794SF they both suggest the water line be 4.5 high and 4 inches from center. Will there be a problem that ours is 6 inches high? I couldn't find the base measurement on the spec sheet and would love to know since the 4 inch measurement seems really small to me and wondering if it is accurate?

    Finally, I am glad to hear Sanagloss is not THAT big of a difference from a person who has real life experience to compare with and without!

    Another thing I heard is that the Aquia has a much louder flush than the Nexus. One reviewer says she and her husband even have a no flush rule at night! Although it's not in a bedroom, just how loud is loud?

    Another point was the water spot:
    Nexus has a water surface 10-1/4" x 8-1/4"
    Aquia's is only 6" x 4-1/2"

    I know the odor of #2 is less when #2 is under water! Any thoughts on this...it is a guest bathroom and near the living room. I can leave some air freshener out but wanted to know if the smaller water spot increases the smell? :confused:

    Signed,

    Julie, another consumer who has learned MORE about toilets then I ever thought I would!
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  7. Julie Tomoser

    Julie Tomoser New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Omaha, Nebraska
    I just looked again at the specs for the Aquia 2 piece toilets and there is a lot of room behind the back so I'm now wondering if perhaps the 2 piece Aquia's are viable options for me after all with my 6 inch from center and 6 inch high water line. I am hoping the water line valve will fit back there. It sticks out 3 3/4 inches from the wall. There is not a measurement for that space on the specs PDF but it looks like a lot of space! I have read that we could also switch it to a quarter turn ball valve with a small diameter handle to save a little space if we have to crowd it back there or we could use one of these skirted toilet kits that angle the stub out. http://www.dahlvalve.com/products/PDFs-documentation/Skirted-Toilet-CDN.pdf

    Oh and another question I forgot to ask in my previous post. I just wanted to verify that the 1.28 tanks really do flush as well as the 1.6 tanks for the Nexus? We are in Nebraska and don't have any incentives with rebates or any water shortage here. It will be in the guest bath and I try to keep my kids out of there to keep it clean so it won't be getting a lot of use as if it was in the main bathroom. Even with light use, I still expect to save quite a few gallons going from a 5 gallon tank so that even a 1.6 will save us a lot of water. Would the Nexus bowl wash be any better with the 1.6?
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,868
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Okay, I will just take it in order.

    The "recommended" water line placement is just a suggestion. If it fits, it fits, and it will fit or it can be made to fit without opening up the wall.

    The CST412MF and 416M are 5" either side of the flange centerline at the base, and taper up from there. There's also an indentation in the back. Most likely, your current hardware will fit just fine. I am assuming that you have a 12" rough-in (12" from the finished floor to the horizontal centerline of your existing flange). However, if your waterlne protrudes too far from the wall in an inconvenient spot, your plumber (or you) can just install the Dahl Skirted Toilet kit (very easy) which incorporates an excellent Dahl quarter-turn valve and a 90-degree bend in one unit. http://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/skirted-toilet-kits.php If you look at the photos at the link, the fact is that that pipe in the photo still protrudes much further than it needs to; you can use the kit so the 90-degree bend occurs right when it comes out of the wall. Your placement is fine.

    On the Maris, the spec sheet indicates that it might be a little close, but also might just fit. If not, as I said, you just install the Dahl kit and you'll be fine. There is a roughly-3.5" gap behind the toilet bowl and the wall on a full 12" rough-in, so the Dahl kit would solve the problem.

    On the Nexus, it's gonna look fine. These suggestions are mostly dealing with the situation where you're using a hard piece of pipe vertically into the base of the water fill valve on the toilet. Since almost everyone uses a flexible braided hose, it doesn't matter that much where the supply is as long as it is in range. And yours would be fine with the Nexus.

    Hubby's concern is a little overly-concerned. It's rare that you're going to damage the china on the bowl or tank such that you need to replace it. They do sell them separately, so indeed you could buy just one of the components. Indeed, the most-often replaced thing is the lid. (Someone opens it and drops it on the stone floor, for example.) The benefit of the two-piece is that you can carry it up the stairs more easily (2 pieces). Its also easier to mold to smaller pieces as opposed to one big one, and hence a two-piece is often a little less expensive. The disadvantage is that the most likely time that you're going to crack the china is when you install the tank of the two-piece and tighten too much (or someone, fearing that, undertightens the tank, leaving it wobbling, whereupon it gets cracked when someone pushes on it). Again, not a frequent occurrance, but not an issue in the one-piece. So if you guys like the appearance of the one-piece, go ahead and get it.

    As to flush noise, I am mystified by that reviewer's comment. These are all gravity toilets, which are inherently-quieter than the pressure-assist models. Some people are vastly more sensitive to stuff like the sound of running water than others. All the newer low-flow gravity toilets dump the water into the bowl faster than their predecessors, which would fill up, swirl forever, then go down. These are more like slurp, gurgle, done. Because the Aquia is a washdown flush, maybe there is an almost-imperceptible-to-normal-humans rush of more water down the sides of the bowl than the models in which much of the water runs across the base of the bowl in a siphon jet. Based, however, on my personal experience, it's not a real issue. Here's a video of the Aquia III flush. Note the great bowl wash. Note the absence of any excessively-loud sound, but it does run the water into the bowl a little longer than the original Drake, for example. (Look up CST744S on youtube if you want to see a video of that toilet flushing. Ignore the apparently-loud refill on that toilet; it doesn't really sound like that, which was the result of an oversensitive cellphone microphone.)

    Aquia III full flush:



    The Aquia does have a little smaller water spot as you point out. I think it's adequate (which is confirmed by the fact that literally more than 99 percent of Terry's customers don't return them and instead buy more of them). And there's always the "courtesy flush" if it's an issue for certain people after an excessively-large meal. And no toilet today will have the swimming pool of water in the bowl that the old toilets did. 'Nuff said.

    You're becoming a really-informed consumer about this stuff. The good news is that there is really no "wrong" decision: most of these toilets would be fine choices with which you are likely to be happy. Come back with more questions if you have them.

    EDIT: Saw your subsequent post after writing this. You found the dahl thing yourself -- good researcher! Most people can't tell the difference between the 1.6 and the 1.28 and indeed some of the difference is really in how much water is sitting in the bowl. However, it's another third-of-a-gallon of water going through the thing, so maybe it helps clean a little better or something, but it's not going to make a meaningful difference in performance under almost all circumstances. Bottom line, though, is that bowl wash is going to be better in the Aquia than the Nexus, which the video should illustrate.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2014
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