Alternative to Super Iron Out - horrific smell when used in softener

[ditttohead]

hehe, how is that different, other than in your nicotine clogged brain?

We sell millions of dollars of equipment per month, we track every failure, every complaint, and we extensively test every piece of equipment or component we sell. If you understood basic math and statistics, you would understand that when you are working with a huge sample like we do, we see patterns that become very obvious. A thousand pieces over the course of your life is not a statistically significant large enough of a sample to even consider. Considering the amount of product we move, we know fairly quickly when a problem is occurring on a product line in this industry. We also work with several other major distributors and manufacturers to share this data so that as an industry we can minimize liability. Just call any filter housing manufacturer (oh wait, you never worked directly with them) and ask them about material choice preferences. When was the last plastics course you took? When was that time you spoke with GE, Dow, BASF, or any other? Ever had to go through or qualify a plastic component for NSF structural integrity? Obviously not, but I am sure duct tape will fix it, or is that only for fixing leaks on PEX? BTW, do you still stand by that recommendation?

Now, please feel free to add something to this conversation that is relevant or helpful, rather than trolling.

 

[Gary Slusser]

More ego driven unsubstantiated claims... Still .01% of many many many thousands.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[NHmaster3015]

Wow, really? Clear housings are a disaster waiting to happen. We stopped selling/installing them a long time ago. UV light from any source degrades the crap out of the plastic in short order.

 

[Reach4]

Wow, really? Clear housings are a disaster waiting to happen. We stopped selling/installing them a long time ago. UV light from any source degrades the crap out of the plastic in short order.

Good point. Many such filters will be indoors and not lit by a lot of sunlight. Others might be installed outdoors or at least by a window. If collecting stats, it would be good to know what the installed environment. My Big Blue filters see almost no UV; they are in a windowless utility room in the basement.

 

[ditttohead]

Companies that have to deal with liability, insurance claims, and have a physical address and actual experienced employees outside of their little bubble will almost all agree that clear housings are not ideal. After 25+ years working in this industry, all over the world with every major manufacturer as either a supplier or distributor of their products.. Clear is there because people demand them, and they look good. Nobody who works for a filter housing manufacturer would even consider putting a clear housing in a location that could have a potential claim for water damage. I know that all the major manufacturers still sell them, and the claims are simply part of doing business. That being said, the liability almost always falls on the homeowner or the installer. If code is not followed to the letter, the claims on clear housings are simply dismissed and never make it through the legal process. The plastic is much more brittle. I have a clear housing demo slated for one of our video production, showing why they should never be used in any application other than in locations where water damage is not a potential. I am guessing I will have this video done by June. I am working on some softener videos for now, my new studio is being built in a few weeks for better video productions.

 

[Mikey]

UV light from any source degrades the crap out of the plastic in short order.

Right -- I have a rain gauge that's no longer transparent from sitting in the FL sun for 5 years. OTOH, the only alternative is really glass, which is impractical and expensive.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Companies that have to deal with liability, insurance claims, and have a physical address and actual experienced employees outside of their little bubble will almost all agree that clear housings are not ideal.

I never had an insurance claim or anything close to one. I was sued once over a mechanical Fleck 8500 valve that wasn't regenerating the second tank. I represented myself and the guy lost the case although he had a lawyer. I was also sued by a county probation officer, in the courthouse he worked in, across the hall from the judge's office... I got the venue changed but they chose a court as far away as possible. I represented myself and the guy had an attorney and he partially lost. That was over a Pyrolox filter that wasn't removing all the H2S and the filter was one part of 3-4 pieces of equipment and two separate wells that the dumb ass was supposed to separate and hadn't as he had told me he did.

I always had a permanent address as a local dealer. Had an employee once or twice too. Where did you see me say they were "ideal"? I said they were good for disinfecting a plumbing system.

After 25+ years working in this industry, all over the world with every major manufacturer as either a supplier or distributor of their products.. Clear is there because people demand them, and they look good. Nobody who works for a filter housing manufacturer would even consider putting a clear housing in a location that could have a potential claim for water damage. I know that all the major manufacturers still sell them, and the claims are simply part of doing business. That being said, the liability almost always falls on the homeowner or the installer. If code is not followed to the letter, the claims on clear housings are simply dismissed and never make it through the legal process. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah.

Sounds to me as if the manufacturers have a liability problem since they know of a problem with them breaking etc. and causing water damage... If it were me, I'd include suing, or at least mentioning to the insurance company that the manufacturer or distributor/supplier did not mention the potential problem either.

Can you provide us where we might be able to find that code you mention?

 

[ditttohead]

LOL, you dont know any codes as it relates to system installations, pressures, etc? No surprise.

I am sure you can google codes on UPC 608.2 and many more as they relate to pressures, regulators, velocities, thermal expansion, check valves, backflow and much more.

And you are missing the point, the premise is that clear housings are not as good as housing made of polypropylene. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand. I doubt you could find one person inside this industry to go on record who would disagree with that statement, other than yourself of course.

Is there any statement I can make that you wont disagree with? Do you have that big of a .... .. for me?

 

[Gary Slusser]

So now you are backing away from your previous comment concerning a code about clear housings...

"If code is not followed to the letter, the claims on clear housings are simply dismissed and never make it through the legal process."

I see that as you not being able to provide facts so you attempt to dazzle with BS while changing the subject to feed your substantial ego. SO yes, there is statement by you that I would agree with anytime. It is 'I'll quit doing that.'

 

[ditttohead]

Wow, sadly, your ridiculousness no longer surprises me. Where did I say there was a code about clear housings? I said if plumbing code (yes, there are codes even though you may feel they are stupid and a waste of time and an infringment on our personal liberties and rights...) is not followed to the letter, claims are typically denied. This means that the requirement for detailed documentation proving that the equipment was installed according to legal requirements and according to manufacturers requirements is adhered to much more stringently than if a polypropylene housing were to fail. Are you really that blinded by your hatred of me that you have to try to find a way to put me down? Are you so insecure that you cant see that someone offering their extensive knowledge to a sight like this is beneficial? or are you just so upset that this is no longer Garys world?

When have you ever agreed with me? Or any of the actual pros on this site?

 

[Gary Slusser]

I'm starting to think you may be a bit 'height' and 'risk' challenged, along with fat fingers or you wouldn't be attempting to use a softener forum for DIYers and others that want info on their water quality or equipment problems and/or questions, to teach service techs.

The bottom line, .01% of your thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of clear housing wholesale sales.

 

[ditttohead]

I'm starting to think you may be a bit 'height' and 'risk' challenged, along with fat fingers or you wouldn't be attempting to use a softener forum for DIYers and others that want info on their water quality or equipment problems and/or questions, to teach service techs.

The bottom line, .01% of your thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of clear housing wholesale sales.

Been imbibing a bit this evening?

 

[stockman20]

I've been laid up the the flu for the past three days and haven't been able to log in. Wow this thread has really heated up!

 

[ditttohead]

LOL, it always does. Just read old posts, you will see a very definite pattern.

 

[stockman20]

Just to be clear...the housings being referred to are housings for whole-house type filters, right? You're not talking about a clear tank for a water softener are you?

 

[NHmaster3015]

Understand that all plumbing codes clearly state that in all cases the manufacturers instructions superceed the code although they can be no less strict, so clear housing failures are generally caused by exposure to UV light rays, either externally or internally (windows, bulbs) the instructions clearly state that the housing can not be exposed in either case. As far as law suits are concerned I would imagine that the majority of them are dismissed when proof of improper installation in proved, however in my mind and as an installer, its a much better idea to not install clear housings in the 1st place.

 

[ditttohead]

You are correct. I really like clear housings in a few circumstances, but would never even consider installing one in a location that has water damage liability potential. Just from personal observations in my 25 years, I have seen a huge amount of clear housings fail catastrophically, and have had to deal with the legal issues these caused. Like you said, UV exposure, and higher pressures were likely a part of the failure. Opaque housings, excluding the garabge manufacturers (Liqatec etc.) rarely fail catastrophically, and considering that the vast majority of housings are opaque, the frequency of failures per unit is far lower than clear. It is simply a matter of materials, as stated earlier, the plastics used in clear manufacturing are not as durable in the long term as opaque, or even translucent Polyproylene. I beleive Pentek uses Lexan and/or Styrene Acrylonitrile depending on size. These plastics are simply not as durable as polypropylene for pressurized applications. Of course, wall thicknesses etc can be adjusted, but most of these are designed to fit the same filter housing cap, and the ID needs to be consistent otherwise the filters wont fit inside.

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[stockman20]

I ran Super Iron Out through again last night (trying to keep on a every four weeks schedule). The smell is back. This time I even replaced the whole-house-filter with a fresh one before starting. I'm now 100% convinced that the odor is being caused by the SIO and has nothing to do with the filter. The softener has regened three times since I last used SIO, with no issue. Just wanted to let anyone who is reading this thread know that replacing the filter was not the solution after all. I think what's happening is that the SIO is causing the smell, and the smell only goes away after I do enough manual regenerations (3-4) to get the SIO completely cleaned out of the salt tank. I have no other explaination.

 

[ditttohead]

The type of acid used in SIO can have a nasty odor. Maybe try buying some citric acid and using it instead. We use citric acid for lowering pH by injecting it. You should not have to run the system through multiple regens to get rid of the smell.

I sent you a pm.

 

[stockman20]

The type of acid used in SIO can have a nasty odor. Maybe try buying some citric acid and using it instead. We use citric acid for lowering pH by injecting it. You should not have to run the system through multiple regens to get rid of the smell.

I sent you a pm.

Ditto - good suggestion. Can you point me to a brand or type that you would recommend?

As I mentioned in previous posts the odor is definitely a gas - as it dissipates shortly after the water comes out of the faucet. I wish there was some sort of gas release on top of my softener.