5600sxt Settings - Very Salty Water After Regeneration

[Neshco]

Yesterday, I finally installed my Fleck 5600sxt bought last year.
I have tested hardness after installation and it was zero. Everything was just fine.
This morning, after regeneration, I found that water have very salty taste.
Guess, I didn't adjust something correctly.
I would like to please someone who knows to help me to solve this problem.
I've noticed yesterday after programming that amount of water to countdown til next regeneration is about 2600 gallons. Didn't expect device will start regeneration during the night, but somehow it happens.
We are 5 members family and water hardness is always 20gpg constantly.

Settings are:
DF = Gal ;
VT = dF1b ;
CT = Fd ;
NT = 1 ;
C = 64 ;
H = 22 ;
RS = rc ;
RC = 300 ;
DO = 14 ;
RT = 3:00 ;
BW = 5 ;
Bd = 60 ;
RR = 5 ;
BF = 9 ;
FM = p0.7 ;

Thank you in advance for help.

 

[Reach4]

I see nothing that would cause the countdown to go down rapidly. Does it indicate it is using water when no water is being used?

Your tank contains 1.5 cubic ft of resin (10 x 54 inches)? There are some adjustments you should make in the settings for H and maybe BF. You might check that your BLFC =0.5 gpm.

Check FM value, since that could make the countdown go down to quickly:
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_1-png.31589/

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Neshco]

Hi and thank you very much for response.
Just checked the counter, it is on 2601 gallons left, and no, it does not count down when water is not in use. It look pretty much normal when in use. I didnt expect to see regenerated system this morning when I woke up. Especially we didnt use water during the night. Just washing machine was in use during the night.
Have checked measuring system, mine is paddle wheel (upper one on a picture).
How to check BLFC?
This is my device and I bought it exactly there: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/64k-Flec...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

[Reach4]

It's possible that you accidentally told the unit to regen that night. It's easy to press the Extra Cycle button by accident if doing things. See the Service Manual page 4. Watch for the flashing faucet icon after doing stuff, and cancel if did not intend to do that.

Queueing a Regeneration
1. Press the Extra Cycle button. The service icon will flash to
indicate that a regeneration is queued.
2. To cancel a queued regeneration, press the Extra
Cycle button.​

How to check BLFC?

You probably have 0.5 gpm, and your current settings seem to presume that.

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 6.75 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Compensated hardness = 22 ; including any compensation
People = 5 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 300 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 6.68 ; Computed days including reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/, Single Backwash, black cam
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 43.1 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 22 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 300 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 30 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 9 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = P0.7 ; https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/


ALTERNATIVE C and H pairs:
The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.
the sweet area is in bold.

BLFC = 0.5
cubic ft resin = 2

lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=
5.250 ; 37.2 ; 7
6.000 ; 40.0 ; 8 ;save more salt.
6.750 ; 43.1 ; 9 ; current reasonable choice
7.500 ; 46.1 ; 10 ; another good choice
8.250 ; 48.9 ; 11 ; softer
9.000 ; 51.3 ; 12

Is the system really in Norway?

 

[Neshco]

It's possible that you accidentally told the unit to regen that night. It's easy to press the Extra Cycle button by accident if doing things. See the Service Manual page 4. Watch for the flashing faucet icon after doing stuff, and cancel if did not intend to do that.

Absolutely possible. Guess Ive done that. Will see tomorrow.

Before I readjust settings, just to check. Is C=43.1 correct value? Because this is 64k capacity. There is also in system info "cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000" Is that ok?

Because you havent change BW, Bd, RR and BF, just wonder if saltiness will be reduced with this settings?
I have TDS meter and have measured water from yesterday and from today.
Yesterday, device showed 380ppm and today it was 4400.
Water is not drinkable at all, it is not salty taste, it is very salty.

 

[Neshco]

Is the system really in Norway?

Yes it is

 

[Neshco]

Dear sir, I have readjusted settings by your instructions and it appear that everything is in order now.
Have tested TDS again and it is like 430 now, guess it is ok.
There is no salty taste anymore.

During BD, I think that all brine was sucked out after maybe 30-40 minutes. Is that normal?
After BF the level of water in brine tank is just a bit above salt surface (and there is 1/3 of salt in it). Is it normal?

I would like to thank you for your help. If sometime you are on the travel through Europe, let me know. I can show you this part of Norway and you can be my guest. I am just 50km NW from Oslo, but in the same time in a wilderness.
Here I live: https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...b12b3821f184ccc!8m2!3d60.2043674!4d10.1050504

 

[Bannerman]

The BLFC (brine line flow control) flow rate, is normally specified on a label located nearby to the brine line. This is the flow rate when refilling the brine tank.

The 'C'apacity programmed is not the total capacity of the resin (ie 64K), but is directly conditional on the amount of salt programmed to be consumed each regeneration cycle.

The amount of salt programmed is the BLFC flow rate X BF (brine fill) minutes = gallons to enter brine tank. Each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs salt. We are assuming the BLFC flow rate is 0.5 gpm (gallons per minute) but that should be confirmed. If 0.5 BLFC X 9 minutes BF = 4.5 gallons X 3 lbs = 13.5 lbs salt.

During BD, I think that all brine was sucked out after maybe 30-40 minutes.

The draw rate for drawing brine from the brine tank, is controlled by the size of injector that is installed. The proper quantity of brine should be all drawn within approx 15 minutes, leaving the remaining ~45 minutes of the 60 minute BD cycle to rinse sodium, chloride, calcium & magnesium to drain. It appears the injector installed may have a lower flow rate than usual which will then require a higher BD setting to properly rinse the resin to eliminate your salty condition after regeneration.

With a single tank softener, regeneration will be typically programmed to occur when there is no water use expected. This will be usually during the night when the family is sleeping. The RT (regeneration time) setting you specified in your initial post is 3 am.

 

[Neshco]

rate, is normally specified on a label located nearby to the brine line. This is the flow rate

Got it. Now I understand that
This is what I have there.

Regarding brine fill, to be honest, I was not all the time beside device during this 60 minutes, so it is possible that all brine is sucked out in 15-20 minutes. Next time I'll follow it thoroughly to confirm.

Thank you very much for this explanation. Next few problems and I'll master terminology if nothing

My next goal is to follow salt consumption and fine-tune if necessary.
Regarding water heater and appliances that are old in the system, does use of soft water will dissolve calc in the future or I need to change the heater and stuff? Installations are brand new, but devices not.

 

[Bannerman]

Is there another label similar to this? https://images.app.goo.gl/MPXjDxmCJzJmtwzp7

The label you show indicates the DLFC (drain flow) rate and the injector number, but those are not BLFC. Although a Black label example is shown, each of the 4 flow rates possible, use a different colour label.

 

[Reach4]

Because you havent change BW, Bd, RR and BF, just wonder if saltiness will be reduced with this settings?
I have TDS meter and have measured water from yesterday and from today.
Yesterday, device showed 380ppm and today it was 4400.
Water is not drinkable at all, it is not salty taste, it is very salty.

I cannot think of a reason to explain how that happened, unless somehow there was way too much water in the brine tank due to manual filling.

have readjusted settings by your instructions and it appear that everything is in order now.
Have tested TDS again and it is like 430 now, guess it is ok.
There is no salty taste anymore.

I cannot explain the anomaly, but I hope it was a one time thing.

Yes it is

Cool!

Regarding brine fill, to be honest, I was not all the time beside device during this 60 minutes, so it is possible that all brine is sucked out in 15-20 minutes. Next time I'll follow it thoroughly to confirm.

With a #2 Injector - Blue, I would expect your brine to be sucked out in about 11 minutes. If you are going to watch that, you might also watch the drain line TDS. That should stay normal for the first several minutes of BD, and then go up a lot some minutes later. If that TDS rises too soon during BD, that is diagnostic of a particular flaw where the distributor tube flow is being bypassed. There is no reason to think you have that flow, but it would be interesting to check. Similarly, after the brine has been sucked out, expect the TDS to return to under 500 maybe 30 minutes later as the brine gets rinsed out of the tank. This test is seldom performed, but since you have the TDS meter and are checking things anyway, it seems interesting and possibly useful.

The 2 cuft unit is commonly provided with a #2 injector. I would have preferred a #0 Injector - Red or a #1 Injector - White to pass the salt through the resin a little slower. The injector for the 5600SXT is two pieces. With a #0 Injector - Red, I would raise the BD to 70.

 

[Bannerman]

Water hardness is not measured with a TDS meter. Because hardness mineral ions (calcium and magnesium) in the hard water will be replaced with sodium ions, the TDS of the softened water will not become lower but may actually increase. A total hardness test will be needed such as obtained from a Hach 5b test kit.

 

[Neshco]

With a #2 Injector - Blue, I would expect your brine to be sucked out in about 11 minutes.

I would have preferred a #0 Injector - Red or a #1 Injector - White to pass the salt through the resin a little slower. The injector for the 5600SXT is two pieces. With a #0 Injector - Red, I would raise the BD to 70.

Hmm, when I asked you for advice some weeks ago, you told me to check which valve is in question there, and I dint know that I can read it on the case of the head and I disassembled it. There was only white plastic thing, dont know if that is what you meant by white, blue or red? Is it possible to change it now or it goes together with a head?

I cannot explain the anomaly, but I hope it was a one time thing.

Hope you are right.

Is there another label similar to this? https://images.app.goo.gl/MPXjDxmCJzJmtwzp7

The label you show indicates the DLFC (drain flow) rate and the injector number, but those are not BLFC. Although a Black label example is shown, each of the 4 flow rates possible, use a different colour label.

Yes! I found it, here it is:

Water hardness is not measured with a TDS meter. Because hardness mineral ions (calcium and magnesium) in the hard water will be replaced with sodium ions, the TDS of the softened water will not become lower but may actually increase. A total hardness test will be needed such as obtained from a Hach 5b test kit.

Got that. Just wanted to see the numbers because of the salty water, just to get a picture.
I understood that it is total amount of dissolved minerals in the water and that salty water will increase it dramatically, what actually happens. Now it is around 400, more or less like it was before, just a bit increased.
Regarding Hach test, yes, believe me, I took it all the time during this period, both in a raw tap water, water-heater water and softened water.
Just hope that in the future soft water will dissolve deposits on the heater element and inside of it. Otherwise I would need to change it.
Before water softener, I was forced to change water heater element every 3-4 months. It was terrible. And here it costs like 90$ This is insanely expensive country.

 

[Reach4]

Hmm, when I asked you for advice some weeks ago, you told me to check which valve is in question there, and I dint know that I can read it on the case of the head and I disassembled it. There was only white plastic thing, dont know if that is what you meant by white, blue or red? Is it possible to change it now or it goes together with a head?

The paper label should match the injector inside, but it could be possible that the label would not match the actual current injector.

If you unscrewed the white plastic piece that you saw, you would see there is another white plastic piece. These are called nozzle and throat. At about time 1:30 of this video, you can see these pieces being removed. This injector assembly is the same for the non-electronic 5600 valves and the 5600SXT.

 

[Bannerman]

A TDS meter uses electrical conductivity to estimate TDS. As sodium has higher conductivity than calcium or magnesium, the meter reading will usually show a higher number when the water is softened.

The softened water will slowly dissolve minerals back into the water which is why a hardness test sample obtained from the water heater will often indicate higher hardness than expected for some time after installation of a softener.

While the softened water should lessen further scale formation from occurring on the water heater elements, there may continue to be some scale formation until the scale within the remainder of the tank is eliminated. Continue regularly flushing loose sediment from the tank bottom through the tank's lower drain faucet.

 

[Reach4]

#1 white is a very good choice, and it matches well to BD=60. I expect with a #1 injector to draw your brine in about 18.6 minutes plus or minus what-- 20%?

 

[ditttohead]

A TDS meter is not really what it claims to be. It is a estimate based on the waters conductivity. Call it an algorithmic estimate of what the TDS might be. The little hand held meters are actually conductivity (or resistivity) testers of water. How much electricity makes it across a span of water. If you were to dissolve salt into water the "TDS" would rise very quickly. Dissolve sugar into water and you will see little to no change in "TDS". Sorry for the short classroom session, I just saw someone using a TDS meter... these meters are primarily useful for determining the effectiveness of a membrane or DI system.