Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Noble brought out their membrane in the 1980's as did Schluter...Noble a few years before. They used their components in a very similar manner with a clamping drain because nothing else was available. Schluter, from the beginning, used thinset as the medium to hold it all together and seam all of the seams, except at the clamping drain...Noble used their sealant in a tube for all seams (or, not sure when it was introduced), their adhesive in lieu of thinset.
Schluter Kerdi hadn't been around all that long when they developed their drain...tried to get it manufactured, nobody believed it would be sell enough to be viable, and they ended up building their own means to have it produced. It took Noble, and everyone else nearly two decades to come out with similar drains. Now, in addition to Noble and Schluter with surface membranes and bonded drains, in the last several years USG, Laticrete, Noble, and Mapei have all come out with similar membranes and drain assemblies (and maybe others). All good companies. All reliable products. All produce a shower that passes all industry tests. Imitation is often considered a form of flattery. All of these things work, and most of the newcomers (to this, not to the tile industry) also allow their system to be installed over suitable stable substrates (which includes gypsum board -aka drywall) AND the use of unmodified thinsets to do it.
Some people have their preferences, as they are not all identical - a patent only protects a company for so long from direct competitors, and that is normal. But for some to call a product junk, is both misguided and makes me question their credibility, especially after using the products for numerous years successfully.
I have no financial interest in any products, have purposely tried to expand my knowledge by attending manufacturer workshops on their products to understand how they work and to get some first-hand experience with them - many of the instructors in these workshops have been in the business for 30-years or more, and have talked to the engineers that made these products possible, and understand them far better than the average person - IOW, a very good place to learn the basics of how they were designed to be used. One can know that, and not be highly skilled at using them. I've used them more than once. I do not solicit jobs, nor get paid for it, but having helped make it possible to shoot a missile down with another, I have a good idea of how to examine different products, understand what the manufacturer is saying, and to be able to weigh pros and cons of various things. One learns theses things by having an open mind, talking AND listening to people, and learning to anticipate and control the consequences of any decision. There is a system to these things...it takes engineering, a good product, and proper installation to get the full advantage of them. Mix and match doesn't always work, or provide the best alternatives - sometimes, it's the only way. That way is not fixed, nor should not be limited, nor should alternatives be ignored, which is what John Whipple is trying to do here.
A forum is a place to learn, not to be badgered by bullies. I know that over the years, and it will continue, that I learn as much or more than I try to give back, and that is: there's more than one way to succeed.
FWIW, if you want reliable advice, think about it and try to be specific. A general question will elicit a general answer OR, as in John's case...his way of doing something, which may not address your concerns, budget, skill set, or timeframe. There are alternatives that work. Understand them, then make a decision on if it will work for you in your situation. Then, ask more. Often, the question asked is not the question that is really needed. It takes some give and take, not being berated or ignored, to come up with a plan that will work for your project, budget, timeframe, needs and desires. If you didn't want options, or already knew how to do it, why would you come here and ask questions in the first place? Ignoring all options may also mean loosing an opportunity. What works for a pro as second nature, may not be the best way for a DIY'er on his first try to attempt.
Schluter Kerdi hadn't been around all that long when they developed their drain...tried to get it manufactured, nobody believed it would be sell enough to be viable, and they ended up building their own means to have it produced. It took Noble, and everyone else nearly two decades to come out with similar drains. Now, in addition to Noble and Schluter with surface membranes and bonded drains, in the last several years USG, Laticrete, Noble, and Mapei have all come out with similar membranes and drain assemblies (and maybe others). All good companies. All reliable products. All produce a shower that passes all industry tests. Imitation is often considered a form of flattery. All of these things work, and most of the newcomers (to this, not to the tile industry) also allow their system to be installed over suitable stable substrates (which includes gypsum board -aka drywall) AND the use of unmodified thinsets to do it.
Some people have their preferences, as they are not all identical - a patent only protects a company for so long from direct competitors, and that is normal. But for some to call a product junk, is both misguided and makes me question their credibility, especially after using the products for numerous years successfully.
I have no financial interest in any products, have purposely tried to expand my knowledge by attending manufacturer workshops on their products to understand how they work and to get some first-hand experience with them - many of the instructors in these workshops have been in the business for 30-years or more, and have talked to the engineers that made these products possible, and understand them far better than the average person - IOW, a very good place to learn the basics of how they were designed to be used. One can know that, and not be highly skilled at using them. I've used them more than once. I do not solicit jobs, nor get paid for it, but having helped make it possible to shoot a missile down with another, I have a good idea of how to examine different products, understand what the manufacturer is saying, and to be able to weigh pros and cons of various things. One learns theses things by having an open mind, talking AND listening to people, and learning to anticipate and control the consequences of any decision. There is a system to these things...it takes engineering, a good product, and proper installation to get the full advantage of them. Mix and match doesn't always work, or provide the best alternatives - sometimes, it's the only way. That way is not fixed, nor should not be limited, nor should alternatives be ignored, which is what John Whipple is trying to do here.
A forum is a place to learn, not to be badgered by bullies. I know that over the years, and it will continue, that I learn as much or more than I try to give back, and that is: there's more than one way to succeed.
FWIW, if you want reliable advice, think about it and try to be specific. A general question will elicit a general answer OR, as in John's case...his way of doing something, which may not address your concerns, budget, skill set, or timeframe. There are alternatives that work. Understand them, then make a decision on if it will work for you in your situation. Then, ask more. Often, the question asked is not the question that is really needed. It takes some give and take, not being berated or ignored, to come up with a plan that will work for your project, budget, timeframe, needs and desires. If you didn't want options, or already knew how to do it, why would you come here and ask questions in the first place? Ignoring all options may also mean loosing an opportunity. What works for a pro as second nature, may not be the best way for a DIY'er on his first try to attempt.