Wife wants two high-amperage appliances into same 20-amp kitchen outlet.

[Robert Gift]

Can each ( | | ) of the duplex outlet be powered by a different 20-amp circuit?
Their adjacent circuit breakers would be tied together, but what about the 240-volt potential
between each outlet?
Legal? Sensible?

Thank you.

 

[Fitter30]

Receptacle has breakaway tabs between the screw connections that will separate each one. 240 vac should never be a problem because a i never seen a 120vac appliance with two cords. Panels are wired where a 240 vac two pole breaker are clipped on the buss side by side. If two single pole breakers are wired with a full breaker space between them they will be on the same 120 vac . Breaker space would be spaced at 1&3 with 2 would be for another breaker. Number 12 wire in a standard wiring box will be difficult to get everything connected. Outlet with two different power sources even though it can be done is dangerous maybe not for you but down the road for someone else.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

I have wired a receptacle in this manner with a double 20A breaker, 12/3 NM-B wire and a deep box with no issues.

 

[Reach4]

Can each ( | | ) of the duplex outlet be powered by a different 20-amp circuit?
Their adjacent circuit breakers would be tied together, but what about the 240-volt potential
between each outlet?
Legal? Sensible?

Thank you.

This can be done with MWBC, where the neutral is shared. If doing this, to get GFCI protection, the two hots should be served via a 2-pole GFCI breaker, or two adjacent breakers with the handles tied together.

If you would rather have the GFCI function built into the outlets, consider upgrading the box to a 4 inch box to accept two GFCI outlets.

The fact that the 2 hots have 240 volt between them is not a significant increase in hazard. The normal way to get shocked by an outlet or appliance is from hot to ground, and not hot to another hot. So hot to ground, you still only have 120 volts.

 

[wwhitney]

I have wired a receptacle in this manner with a double 20A breaker, 12/3 NM-B wire and a deep box with no issues.

Where GFCI protection is required, you would need to use a double pole 20A GFCI to do it that way. Which is how all of my kitchen receptacles are wired (this was before kitchen AFCI requirements).

If you run two separate 12/2 cables to the box and break both the hot and neutral tabs on the duplex receptacle, you can use two separate single pole breakers with a handle tie, or a double pole breaker. In a kitchen GFCI could be provided on each circuit separately, either at the breaker, or via upstream GFCI devices. Do not connect the two separate neutrals together anywhere.

As to box size, for a single gang box with two dead end 12/2 (two circuits) and one device, the minimum box size is 2*2 (conductors) +1 (EGCs) + 2 (device) = 7 units @ 2.25 = 15.75 in^3. If one circuit also exits (e.g. new circuit is run which dead ends to existing box with feed-through circuit), that goes up to 9 * 2.25 = 20.25 in^3. And if both circuits run through, it becomes 11 * 2.25 = 24.75 in ^3. Which is not really feasible.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Robert Gift]

Receptacle has breakaway tabs between the screw connections that will separate each one. 240 vac should never be a problem because a i never seen a 120vac appliance with two cords. Panels are wired where a 240 vac two pole breaker are clipped on the buss side by side. If two single pole breakers are wired with a full breaker space between them they will be on the same 120 vac . Breaker space would be spaced at 1&3 with 2 would be for another breaker. Number 12 wire in a standard wiring box will be difficult to get everything connected. Outlet with two different power sources even though it can be done is dangerous maybe not for you but down the road for someone else.

Thank you. (Interrupted by a trip before posting this.)

Yes. Told wife that I do not want myviring to kill someone after I am dead!
Many of our outlets I wired for bottom receptacle 120 VAC and top on dimmer or switch. But they are on the same circuit breaker.
If I tie two adjacent circuit breakers, each is on a different circuit 240 volts apart.

If appliance plugs are not polarized I could be creating 240 V. between them.
(Years ago I felt a hum when touching the GE electic stove and metal sink. Never got around to measuring the voltage
with myolt/ohmeter.)

 

[Reach4]

Years ago it was common to not have a separate ground for an electric stove, but rather to use the same wire as both the neutral and ground. Electric stoves were powered via 3-conductor plugs, even if they had 120 volt outlets built in.

GFCI is a nice technology to keep people from harmful shocks, even if they were to stick a wire into one hot with the left hand and another into different hot with the right hand.

In many countries, there is about 240 volts between hot and ground.

 

[Afjes]

What your wife wants is no big deal and can be done easily.
Either GFCI protection from the breaker or where the first receptacle lands physically in the kitchen.
You can run two separate circuits to the kitchen either by two single pole breakers 12/2 with ground
or MWBC (shared neutral) to the first landing receptacle location. You can also since running two separate circuits or MWBC whichever bring both to a double duplex side by side in the same 2 gang box. This way she has the ability to plug in two different appliances one on each of the two duplex receptacles and on each one still have an available place to plug in something less power hungry such as a phone charger etc. Then you have less need for a power strip, pulling one plug out and putting another one in due to lack of plug space. Then you can run those two circuits to another double duplex 2 gang box and so on.

The advantage of running more than one circuit to the counter tops and alternating their locations (or adding locations) is that if one of the circuits fail and you only have one circuit to the counter tops you don't have to run an extension cord or if you have one circuit on one side of the sink and another on the other side of the sink with multiples to them on the same sides and the circuit goes dead you have to shift all your countertop appliances to one side of the sink to be able to use them until you can gt someone in the check the reason for the failure.

Unless you really need to have a MWBC I would run single 120v circuits (20amps). Again so if there is an issue with a circuit and you as a DIYers can't solve it on your own you have other working receptacles along the entire length of the countertop. This is what I always did when running circuits on countertops. Code only required 2 SABCs but I tried hard to convince the home owner or contractor/landlord etc to run several. An entire countertop without power the landlord will be swamped with calls from the tenant until it is fixed. If only one receptacle goes dead on the countertop the tenant has several other receptacles to use; far less inconvenient far less calls from the tenant or yelling from the "wife".

 

[Robert Gift]

What your wife wants is no big deal and can be done easily.
Either GFCI protection from the breaker or where the first receptacle lands physically in the kitchen.
You can run two separate circuits to the kitchen either by two single pole breakers 12/2 with ground
or MWBC (shared neutral) to the first landing receptacle location. You can also since running two separate circuits or MWBC whichever bring both to a double duplex side by side in the same 2 gang box. This way she has the ability to plug in two different appliances one on each of the two duplex receptacles and on each one still have an available place to plug in something less power hungry such as a phone charger etc. Then you have less need for a power strip, pulling one plug out and putting another one in due to lack of plug space. Then you can run those two circuits to another double duplex 2 gang box and so on.

The advantage of running more than one circuit to the counter tops and alternating their locations (or adding locations) is that if one of the circuits fail and you only have one circuit to the counter tops you don't have to run an extension cord or if you have one circuit on one side of the sink and another on the other side of the sink with multiples to them on the same sides and the circuit goes dead you have to shift all your countertop appliances to one side of the sink to be able to use them until you can gt someone in the check the reason for the failure.

Unless you really need to have a MWBC I would run single 120v circuits (20amps). Again so if there is an issue with a circuit and you as a DIYers can't solve it on your own you have other working receptacles along the entire length of the countertop. This is what I always did when running circuits on countertops. Code only required 2 SABCs but I tried hard to convince the home owner or contractor/landlord etc to run several. An entire countertop without power the landlord will be swamped with calls from the tenant until it is fixed. If only one receptacle goes dead on the countertop the tenant has several other receptacles to use; far less inconvenient far less calls from the tenant or yelling from the "wife".

Thank you.
Your idea is excellent! - more than just two circuits to the island.
My problem is thathe sevicentrance is outside the garage wall. Trying to find a way to get another 12/2G to the kitchen.
Wish there were a conduit under the garage floor to run additional wires into the basement. Then far easier to run wires from there.

 

[Robert Gift]

What your wife wants is no big deal and can be done easily.
Either GFCI protection from the breaker or where the first receptacle lands physically in the kitchen.
You can run two separate circuits to the kitchen either by two single pole breakers 12/2 with ground
or MWBC (shared neutral) to the first landing receptacle location. You can also since running two separate circuits or MWBC whichever bring both to a double duplex side by side in the same 2 gang box. This way she has the ability to plug in two different appliances one on each of the two duplex receptacles and on each one still have an available place to plug in something less power hungry such as a phone charger etc. Then you have less need for a power strip, pulling one plug out and putting another one in due to lack of plug space. Then you can run those two circuits to another double duplex 2 gang box and so on.

The advantage of running more than one circuit to the counter tops and alternating their locations (or adding locations) is that if one of the circuits fail and you only have one circuit to the counter tops you don't have to run an extension cord or if you have one circuit on one side of the sink and another on the other side of the sink with multiples to them on the same sides and the circuit goes dead you have to shift all your countertop appliances to one side of the sink to be able to use them until you can gt someone in the check the reason for the failure.

Unless you really need to have a MWBC I would run single 120v circuits (20amps). Again so if there is an issue with a circuit and you as a DIYers can't solve it on your own you have other working receptacles along the entire length of the countertop. This is what I always did when running circuits on countertops. Code only required 2 SABCs but I tried hard to convince the home owner or contractor/landlord etc to run several. An entire countertop without power the landlord will be swamped with calls from the tenant until it is fixed. If only one receptacle goes dead on the countertop the tenant has several other receptacles to use; far less inconvenient far less calls from the tenant or yelling from the "wife".

Thank you.
Your idea is excellent! - more than just two circuits to the island.
My problem is thathe sevicentrance is outside the garage wall. Trying to find a way to get another 12/2G to the kitchen.
Wish there were a conduit under the garage floor to run additional wires into the basement. Then far easier to run wires from there.