Why is my flange sideways

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Melanie Fuller

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Several issues here BUT...main bath toilet leaked from underneath...figured wax ring was shot & pulled up the toilet. I found that previous owners had tiled over tile and just grouted around outside of flange. Roots from outside the pipe broke through the grout and destroyed wax ring...after cleaning wax up and verifying roots were not growing up through pipe I saw that the flange was installed sideways it is slightly above the newer tile (possibly an extended flange?). The bolts were drilled into the plastic of the flange to anchor the toilet properly...I need to chip out the broken grout and use what to seal between the pipe & tile floor to discourage root growth? Do I remove old plastic flange that is sideways? Do I need a new flange? When we reset the toilet with a new ring appropriately positioned waste water appears to to seep/squirt out from under the flange through that grout...advice appreciated...and is this a job for a plumber or can it be done myself? Please advise. Thanks
 

Reach4

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It is best to post a photo. I don't know how your flange can be sideways.

Your pipe may have a partial clog. The wax is normally a gas seal, and not so much a water seal. Try running a hose full blast for a few minutes down the hole to see if it accepts all of the water you can give it.

Consider what tree is doing this, and consider if you want to keep that tree.

Copper sulfate is sometimes used to keep roots out of an area. There may be something better.
 
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Melanie Fuller

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Thank you for your prompt reply. Pictures to follow, I was at work. In my front yard there is a palm tree and two bushes between the house and the septic tank, I hate the location of the palm, but I digress...yesterday ran water in both bathroom sinks and NO water emerged from the sewer pipe into the first chamber of the septic tank...also, no water can go down the hole as of this morning it was still full...
 

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It sounds as if you you have your main problem determined. You need some sewer work, or at least rodding.

If your sewer lines are clay, you might need to replace those with PVC to make them root-tight.

If you were plunging the toilet, that could have blown out the wax.
 

Melanie Fuller

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Reach4

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Your flange is an offset flange. It is not the cause of your roots problem. An offset flange can contribute to clogs at the toilet exit, but not usually. They are best avoided, but not worth ripping out.

Whoever rods out your sewer pipes might insert the tool down that hole.

I would get some copper sulfate, and jam some into where the tree roots were by toilet flange. It tastes bad to the plant, and it should stop more roots while it is still there.
 
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Melanie Fuller

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Plumber just left. The sewer pipe from the house to the septic tank is a schedule 20, very thin, and looks to be broken. The rod was going into the ground rather in to the pipe. He did unclog it, hallelujah! Scheduled a pump out for Thursday morning, and we are going to dig the pipe from the tank to the house to look for break, and allow them to do the repair. They will insert schedule 40 PVC and a new filter for the other chamber.
 

Melanie Fuller

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Now back to my flange, didn't even have him look at that because I, honestly, I can't afford it! LOL. OK let me get this straight, take copper sulfite and put down along the pipe to kill off roots? Correct? Leave offset flange as is and set new toilet? What do I do to "seal" the area where that grout is?
 

Reach4

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take copper sulfite
Copper sulfate. I don't know where you would find the small quantity that you would use. Maybe ask Ace Hardware? I just tried an auction site, and sorted by lowest price including shipping. $5. Somebody may have a better suggestion for you.
Leave offset flange as is and set new toilet? What do I do to "seal" the area where that grout is?
After he does his thing, I would run a hose into that flange to make sure it does not back up. He is going to ask you to run water anyway. If that flange cannot accept all of the water you can give it, have him rod from that hole. Maybe he plans to do it anyway.

What about grout? I don't know. I guess you could stick mortar down there, over the copper sulfate. Or just cram copper sulfate... I am not sure. Mortar is pretty much concrete without the rocks.
How does grout differ? I am not sure. There are a lot of kinds of grout.

put down along the pipe to kill off roots? Correct? Leave offset flange as is and set new toilet?
Right. Yes, wherever you can stick it to touch the roots or where the roots might be trying to go. Maybe dig out what you can with a knife or screwdriver, and then stuff the copper sulfate.

My comments are not based on experience.
 

Melanie Fuller

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Gotcha!! Ran 12 foot of garden house down the open flange and turned on full blast...no back up of water. Digging trench from house to septic now. Guess I didn't need them bushes, right? Plumber says digging myself saves half the cost for all the labor...
 
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Reach4

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Ran 12 foot of garden house down the open flange and turned on full blast...no back up of water.
I was thinking about floor level, plus or minus two inches... but if there was a block on the way in, I think you would have detected that with your hose.
 

Melanie Fuller

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Do you want a good laugh??? The previous owners put in the pipe from the house to the tank...when the pipe appeared about 6 inches too short...they duct taped some pieces together and encased them in cement. I didn't have a broken pipe, the concrete busted in two and left the pipe hanging in dirt and that's where it was clogged...
 

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Do you want a good laugh??? The previous owners put in the pipe from the house to the tank...when the pipe appeared about 6 inches too short...they duct taped some pieces together and encased them in cement. I didn't have a broken pipe, the concrete busted in two and left the pipe hanging in dirt and that's where it was clogged...
Wow. That is pretty bad.

Probably the problem was in the last place your workers dug. ;-)
 

Gary Swart

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Just a note on your original question about the "sideways" flange. As already explained, this is an offset flange and is usually used when the floor joist did not allow for the normal straight flange. The offset can get this room, but it is an extra jog that can sometimes cause a clog problem. As the comment stated, the offset flange is not the greatest, but sometimes is the only way to make the connection. Duct tape a sewer line? Unbelievable.
 

Melanie Fuller

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Some pictures for your amusement...two halves of the concrete and the new pipe work my friends husband did for us...toilet will be next, he wants to replace the offset flange probably with a better one, was talking about digging out that old grout and changing the something or other...he's a plumber by trade so it's legit....then pump out on Thursday morning...
 

Jadnashua

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Because the shape of the offset flange is not round...you have to get a little creative when using a wax ring. Often, the diameter ends up being larger, and a single round one won't make it. So, sometimes, you need to cut it, add some more from a second wax ring, and reform it to the needed shape, otherwise, there can be gaps. That, combined with the potential splashing because of the offset, means it can leak when not perfect. Roots have an uncanny ability to find moisture...stop the moisture, and you'll probably be okay.
 

Melanie Fuller

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As a side note, I absolutely took the opportunity and repainted the wall behind the toilet since the toilet is out of the room...looks wonderful darling...just wonderful...
 
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