Whole House Water Filtration: Chloramines and Fluoride

[JWolfe]

Looking for a recommendation to remove Chloramines and Fluoride from our municipal water. Both are present in the water report. Looking for the most cost effective method that provides for a whole home solution. My options appear to be a combination of "Big Blue" or something like the SoftPro Whole House Chlorine +. SoftPro looks makes great claims, but I don't see any certifications, no backwash for that large of a unit, and no information about replacing the media after it has gone beyond its lifespan. There seems to be plenty of options for removing chlorine and chloramines, fewer options to ALSO get rid of fluoride. I was surprised to see the cost of Bone Char Filter replacements for the "big blue", potentially considering a filter then I can hand replace the bone char to decrease the cost.

Before someone tells me that fluoride is added intentionally for teeth benefits, I disagree and I'm not here to explain debate it. I just want Chloramines and Fluoride out of our water.

TLDR: whole house filtration removing chloramines and fluoride, preferably less than $1,500 upfront and with the lowest per year maintenance cost.

 

[Sylvan]

Why filter water going down a toilet or for watering a lawn?

Point of use filters are easier and cheaper to maintain

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Fitter30]

Reverse Osmosis will remove 85-92%of fluoride and chloramines. Whole house and not point of use that Sylvan post suggested max gpm and pressure drop across the system has to be taken into consideration.

 

[Bannerman]

Chloramine (chlorine + ammonia) is considerably more difficult to remove compared to plain chlorine.

Carbon media requires sufficient contact time to effectively reduce/remove a vast number of contaminants, so the most effective flow rate will typically be between 1-3 GPM per cubic foot (ft3) of media. Compounds that are easier to remove may be effectively removed at 3 gpm/ft3, whereas more difficult to remove compounds will typically require longer contact time, so slowing the flow rate to as low as 1 gpm/ft3 may be needed.

For a point of entry (whole home) application, a backwashing filtration system containing 2 cubic feet of Catalytic Carbon is the minimum size recommended. With carbon media, a larger amount of media will provide increased effective support for higher flow rates, and will further extend contact time when water use is moderate.

Fluoride is extremely difficult to remove.

A large volume of Carbon media will usually result in some amount of reduction to the fluoride level, as will ion exchange media such as the use of a water softener. Bone char is typically rated at ~90% reduction, but it remains unclear of the amount of Bone Char media needed to provide that reduction.

Other fluoride removal options include distillation, deionization and reverse osmosis (RO).

RO is typically the most cost effective solution, especially small units intended to supply water for consumption as a point of use application.

My municipal water is supplied by various deep water wells. Fluoride is not added as it is naturally present, but so is arsenic, so I currently utilize a water softener, followed by an under sink RO unit to supply water for drinking & cooking as the output is supplying a seperate low flow kitchen faucet and the fridge water & ice dispenser. As my town continues to utilize plain chlorine for disinfection, I am currently in the process of adding a backwashing GAC (granular activated carbon) filtration system prior to the softener. If the town later decides to adopt chloramine as many municipalities have done, I will then replace the GAC with the more expensive Catalytic Carbon media.

 

[Sylvan]

Reverse Osmosis will remove 85-92%of fluoride and chloramines. Whole house and not point of use that Sylvan post suggested max gpm and pressure drop across the system has to be taken into consideration.

Reverse Osmosis wastes lots of water some estimates are you waste 4 gallons to get one.

If you have a water meter that cost may be excessively high.

Point of use you can have a carbon filter to remove sediment and then another for heavy metals such as lead or Mercury.

Then add another to remove chemicals such as chlorine. Still cheaper and less friction losses,

For a shower head for example who cares if there is fluoride?

It is the Chlorine fumes that are toxic

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Start at your water meter..... install a 2cubic foot Activated carbon filter with a Clack backwashing control.....
you can decide if you wish to re-plumb the outside hose bibs before the carbon filter or just clean it all...
The 2 cubic foot backwashing carbon filter is good for about a million gallons of water before the filter goes bad
.
then after the carbon filter run a separate line for a RO unit for drinking water in the kitchen.......
Then you install a 48,000 grain water softener...... to soften all the water in the home......

This is about as much as you can possibly do to get out the chlorines and other contanimants...
and the carbon filter will extend the lifetime of the water softener probably about double...
it all will probably cost you somewhere around $3800-4500

 

[WorldWide Beagle]

Start at your water meter..... install a 2cubic foot Activated carbon filter with a Clack backwashing control.....
you can decide if you wish to re-plumb the outside hose bibs before the carbon filter or just clean it all...
The 2 cubic foot backwashing carbon filter is good for about a million gallons of water before the filter goes bad
.
then after the carbon filter run a separate line for a RO unit for drinking water in the kitchen.......
Then you install a 48,000 grain water softener...... to soften all the water in the home......

This is about as much as you can possibly do to get out the chlorines and other contanimants...
and the carbon filter will extend the lifetime of the water softener probably about double...
it all will probably cost you somewhere around $3800-4500

Mark, if one is limited to using a 2 cu ft NON backwashing, catalytic carbon filter just for chloramines, is it best practice to have a post sediment filter? Guess it can not hurt. I am using a BB 20" pre sediment filter. Clean Muni water, no softener or RO.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

No offence meant here but I have never understood why they even sell a non back washing carbon filter.....
because it begins to get dirty on day 1 and it only gets worse and wears out over time....... I am not a big fan of them


I dont think it
really matters too much whether you install a sediment filter or not....

 

[Bannerman]

In addition to the reasons MPM mentioned above, water will always follow the path of least resistance, including through filtration media.

Water continuously following the same path through the media is commonly referred to as 'channeling'. With flow continually following the same path, filtration along that channel will become less effective due to overuse.

Periodically backwashing the media, will not only flush away sediment and debris from the media bed, but will also cause the media to become redistributed (reclassified) within the tank, eliminating any channels had been developing, thereby forcing the water to follow new pathways through fresher media.

With Carbon media, backwashing 1X per month for 10-minutes at the recommended flow rate, followed by a 6-minute Rapid Rinse cycle to recompact the carbon media, will be usually sufficient.

I am using a BB 20" pre sediment filter.

Does your municipal water contain visible debris? If not, a pre filter is not required or recommended. Backwashing the media will cause sediment and debris to be flushed away to drain.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

In addition to the reasons MPM mentioned above, water will always follow the path of least resistance, including through filtration media.

Water continuously following the same path through the media is commonly referred to as 'channeling'. With flow continually following the same path, filtration along that channel will become less effective due to overuse.

Periodically backwashing the media, will not only flush away sediment and debris from the media bed, but will also cause the media to become redistributed (reclassified) within the tank, eliminating any channels had been developing, thereby forcing the water to follow new pathways through fresher media.

With Carbon media, backwashing 1X per month for 10-minutes at the recommended flow rate, followed by a 6-minute Rapid Rinse cycle to recompact the carbon media, will be usually sufficient.


Does your municipal water contain visible debris? If not, a pre filter is not required or recommended. Backwashing the media will cause sediment and debris to be flushed away to drain.

thanks for the helpful information.....
I knew their were more reasons that I did not like them...
now I am more informed about other issues that certainly make them suck...

My 2 cubic foot carbon filter goes through a cycle once every 7 days...
its probably too much overkill for just me and the wife , and it wastes a little water
but I dont care

 

[WorldWide Beagle]

No offence meant here but I have never understood why they even sell a non back washing carbon filter.....
because it begins to get dirty on day 1 and it only gets worse and wears out over time....... I am not a big fan of them


I dont think it
really matters too much whether you install a sediment filter or not....

None taken. I simply do not have the height, electricity or drain to do a back washing filter. It's in a 1906 home. Have very good and Clean water. Issue is chloramine for health reasons.

From all I have read, it's the downflow non back washing filters that are the most susceptible to filling with dirt. The down flowing water pushing dirt down into the media. It could all be marketing BS, but the the upflow carbon filters "seem" to address some of the concerns.

I understand what @Bannerman says about channeling and I can see that happening in a downflow. But, it's claimed in an upflow setup, the carbon media is being redistributed as the upflowing water circulates the carbon in the freeboard.

Here is the part I don't yet grasp. Are we talking about dirt/sediment entering from the unfiltered water, or non-sediment containments captured by the carbon? If there is no sediment going into the filter, and the only containment is chloramine which is modified by the catalytic carbon, I do understand what could fill up the filter.

That said, it appears that a non backwashing carbon filter should/could only be used on a clean Muni water addressing chlorine or chloramine.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

None taken. I simply do not have the height, electricity or drain to do a back washing filter. It's in a 1906 home. Have very good and Clean water. Issue is chloramine for health reasons.

From all I have read, it's the downflow non back washing filters that are the most susceptible to filling with dirt. The down flowing water pushing dirt down into the media. It could all be marketing BS, but the the upflow carbon filters "seem" to address some of the concerns.

I understand what @Bannerman says about channeling and I can see that happening in a downflow. But, it's claimed in an upflow setup, the carbon media is being redistributed as the upflowing water circulates the carbon in the freeboard.

Here is the part I don't yet grasp. Are we talking about dirt/sediment entering from the unfiltered water, or non-sediment containments captured by the carbon? If there is no sediment going into the filter, and the only containment is chloramine which is modified by the catalytic carbon, I do understand what could fill up the filter.

That said, it appears that a non backwashing carbon filter should/could only be used on a clean Muni water addressing chlorine or chloramine.

I now understand that channelling through the filter is a big part of the issue....
but all of the carbon is eventually covered in "film"
or whatever you want to call the chlorine particles that stick to it....
The backwashing feature just shakes up the whole media bed and basically
removes whatever has stuck to the carbon.... just like a washing machine I have been told
but without salt.......

I have been told that a non backwashing unit might do 400,000 gallons of water passing through it before it needs
to be re-bedded I have been told.... The unit I have been installing is supposed to be good for
about a million gallons passing through it before it needs service....or so I have been told...
I have been telling folks it should be good for 15 years more or less depending on the size of the
family and their water usage.....

 

[Reach4]

I suspect a non-backwashing GAC or catalytic carbon water filter would be upflow. Draw a lot of water on purpose periodically, and it washes.

But for backwashing, there are lever-operated valves. No electricity. Put the lever into backwash for maybe 10 minutes periodically.

 

[WorldWide Beagle]

I now understand that channelling through the filter is a big part of the issue....
but all of the carbon is eventually covered in "film"
or whatever you want to call the chlorine particles that stick to it....
The backwashing feature just shakes up the whole media bed and basically
removes whatever has stuck to the carbon.... just like a washing machine I have been told
but without salt.......

I have been told that a non backwashing unit might do 400,000 gallons of water passing through it before it needs
to be re-bedded I have been told.... The unit I have been installing is supposed to be good for
about a million gallons passing through it before it needs service....or so I have been told...
I have been telling folks it should be good for 15 years more or less depending on the size of the
family and their water usage.....

I have also seen up to 400k to 600k for. 1.5 cuft of carbon, non backwashing, based on clean Muni water and NO other serious contaminants. While our home is large, we only use 3000 g/month INSIDE.. Our irrigation and outside faucet taps off are before the filters. At 3k / month, that only 360k in a decade. I would be thrilled with 10 years. Hope I am still around! I seem to recall reading that it's a wise practice to service/rebed water appliances every ten years.

 

[WorldWide Beagle]

I suspect a non-backwashing GAC or catalytic carbon water filter would be upflow. Draw a lot of water on purpose periodically, and it washes.

But for backwashing, there are lever-operated valves. No electricity. Put the lever into backwash for maybe 10 minutes periodically.

I have seen the lever operated, manual backwashing valves. Look easy. But My issue is no drain access. I like the idea of periodically doing a max GPM draw. Thanks! I could swear I read here or somewhere, that even switching inlet to outlet, and doing a manual back wash every 6 months, helps a lot. Then, I could use a hose snaking through the basement for the temp drain. While wife was playing golf!

 

[Reach4]

I could swear I read here or somewhere, that even switching inlet to outlet, and doing a manual back wash every 6 months, helps a lot.

Makes sense.

 

[Bannerman]

A significant issue with upflow carbon filtration, is the upward Service flow entering from below the media bed. Even while the Service flow rate is less than required to fully backwash the media, the upward flow causes the media bed to be loosened and partially fluidized, expanding the spaces between the carbon granules, resulting in less contact time for contaminants to be removed, thereby reducing filtration performance.

Since backwashing control valves typically incorporate a Rapid Rinse cycle, the rapid downflow will cause the loosened granules as a result of Backwashing, to be recompacted tightly. The ongoing downward Service flow will continue to maintain the compacted media bed.

Carbon filtration media has a large capacity to remove a broad range of contaminants. As the capacity and speed for removal of each contaminant will vary, the carbon media will require periodic replacement even as the capacity and effectiveness to remove other, easier to remove contaminants may remain high.

In addition, although carbon media itself is fairly resistant to bacteria and mold growth, contaminants that are removed, including organic matter, become trapped within the pores of each carbon granule. This means the matter which can become food for microorganisms, will become increasingly concentrated over time.

Although your municipal water will contain chlorine to kill bacteria, chlorine is usually rapidly removed within the first few centimeters of carbon, thereby leaving the remaining carbon with no chlorine exposure. Backwashing is then further beneficial as the resulting media reclassification will cause media that has had 0 chlorine exposure, to be relocated within the tank to where it will be periodically exposed to incoming chlorine.

Even with backwashing with chlorinated water, bacteria will eventually begin to enter and rise within the media bed, so the usual carbon media replacement frequency will be 4-8 years, depending on the quantity of media.

Short writeup on carbon tanks