Which City water pressure booster pump is right for me to increase PSI ?

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Gregmech26

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This is for City water and not well water.

I'm looking to be able to take a 20 minute shower with strong shower water pressure/volume. My shower head is "old school" and puts out around 8-to-10 gpm. I currently run out of hot water after 12 minutes on my 50 gallon water heater. I'm planning on upgrading to a 100 gallon water heater.

In any event, I don't care what some people say about anything over 80 PSI being "too strong." I grew up with over 120 PSI and everything was fantastic. Many cities offer over 150 PSI at the high end.

Is low PSI necessary at the entry point before using a City water pressure booster pump, or can you have 70-90 PSI at the entry point and still use the booster pump to increase the PSI to 110-130?

Why do some of these booster pumps come with a pressure tank, while other pumps are just the pump?

These look interesting:

1.) https://www.ferguson.com/category?Ntt=booster+pump&searchKeyWord=booster+pump&_requestid=551038


2.) https://www.ferguson.com/product/li...re-system-l90411101/_/R-4414077?skuId=4414077


3.) https://www.homeperfect.com/amtrol-2201-28-rp-25hp-pressure-city-water-booster-systems.html?ev_pid=amtrp25&ev_ppid=69148584139&ev_cid=42629221995&ev_adtype=pla&ev_cmpg=New Shopping Campaign&gclid=CjwKEAjw8ZzHBRCUwrrV59XinXUSJADSTE5kPu3UGBtnQkhKMj7dzY0-kp2kDKJT7-gLbrICpO7buhoCV67w_wcB


From Home Depot:


4.) http://www.homedepot.com/p/Water-Wo...-WWPB10/207145834?keyword=city+water+pressure


Finally, could I isolate the pump to use as a stand-alone pump just for the shower instead of a whole-house water booster?

Many thanks for your responses.
 

Craigpump

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Shouldn't be too hard to find a Grundfos dealer in Michigan. I've seen them on display at my distributor, but have never installed one.

The Amtrol unit and the Home Depot are probably very similar with the exception of the tank diaphram. They're both Amtrols, but the Water Worker has a much lighter diaphram that wont give the same service.
 

Smooky

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8-10 gpm is a lot of water out an old school shower head. How do you know that is correct? With an old school shower head you ought to get better than a 12 minute shower. If it is an electric hot water heater, one of the elements might be burned out. You might be able to turn up the temperature too. I would check to see if there is a pressure reducing valve that you could turn up if the city pressure is weak. Seems like you got plenty of pressure if it is putting out 8-10 gpm.
 

Gregmech26

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Thank you both for your replies!

I do not know for certain how many GPM's my old-school shower head puts out. I know the water-savers have been removed and the opening of the shower head "drilled out." Plus, it is the old-school AnyStream 4-jet shower head prior to 1992 and all the regulations.

I have a 50 gallon "fast-recovery" gas water heater which is always set to the maximum heat. It is just over 2-years old. I had the dealer come out to the house right before the warranty expired, but he tested the water heater with some gizmo with green lights and claimed the water heater was working perfectly. I was told just because it's a 50 gallon water heater, it's likely only practically putting out around 35 gallons of hot water. This is "normal" according to the dealer. He said I may have a faulty shower valve or cartridge that needs replacing; however, I have no issues with the temperature and the water pressure is always even. The shower was completed in 1997 as part of our finished basement, so it's 20 years old.

There is no pressure-reducing valve at our house. The City claims we get anywhere from 60-88 PSI depending on the time of day.

In the old days, it would be impossible for me to stop the water coming out of my shower head by placing my hand over the head. Today I can easily stop the water by placing my hand over the head. The water pressure throughout the entire house is a lot lower than it used to be 30 years ago; however, since that time a lot of new subdivisions have popped up and the City has built an auxiliary "local water tower" to help offset the cost of Detroit City water during peek hours.

So basically I get the highest PSI between midnight-2am when our local water tower is "filling up" with Detroit City water. Then between 5am-10am the local water tower is activated and actually in use. After 10am apparently we resort back to the regular Detroit City water where the PSI is noticeably reduced.

In regards to PSI, and what one may consider "strong" or "weak" water pressure, this can be highly subjective. What one person finds "strong" another may find very "weak". Just like in the Jerry Seinfeld shower-head episode with Kramer. It's similar to Air Conditioning. What one person finds "too cold", another person finds it to be uncomfortable or "too warm".

I already emailed the Grundfos people through their USA website , and apparently they have a dealer in Auburn Hills, Michigan.

I travel often and use my own shower head when I travel. I have been to many cities where the water pressure is so strong it will knock you down if you're not grabbing on to something. I want that again in my house!

Some people like chocolate, while others like drinking. Some people prefer sports while others paint. My vice in life is to be able to take a very strong 20-minute hot shower.
 
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Valveman

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None of those pumps you listed will build over 50 PSI. The SCALA2 only builds 44 PSI max. The SCALA is the replacement for the failed MQ that never worked well. I think the SCALA will be even less reliable than the MQ, if that is even possible. Lot of plastic and electronics, expensive, made to sell, not to last.

Before you do anything you are going to need to know what size pump is needed. I would measure the output of the shower in a bucket to see how many GPM's it is using. While doing the bucket test you need a pressure reading from a pressure gauge on the water inlet.

Now if your shower head is putting out 10 GPM at say 80 PSI, then it will put out more flow at higher pressure. This is mostly a guess but I think the same shower head would put out maybe 15 GPM at 120 PSI. Then when you up the flow from 10 to 15 GPM, the incoming pressure will most likely drop to say 40 PSI. So now if you want 15 GPM at 120 PSI with 40 PSI inlet pressure, you will need a pump that can produce 15 GPM at 80 PSI boost.

That being said you must have a pluming problem if you need that much pressure. I have a Cycle Stop Valve delivering a constant 60 PSI to my house. Any more pressure an even the shower upstairs will peel your skin off. The pipes to your shower head must be small and restrictive, because if you had 120 PSI at the shower head, it would inject water under the skin like a hypodermic needle.
 

Gregmech26

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In the video I watched on YouTube it claimed the SCALA2 can boost pressure up to 140 PSI. Are you saying if the incoming PSI at my home is greater than 50 PSI then the SCALA2 won't work?

I'm an amateur. Getting a pressure reading at the water inlet of the incoming water pressure while reading the GPM at the shower head in buckets sounds out of my league.

Perhaps you're right that I may have a plumbing issue. My house is 30 years old and roughly 5000 sq feet including the finished basement. Some of the older sinks upstairs are so strong it is stronger than my shower head, while my other sinks that have been replaced have rather dismal pressure (in my opinion.)

I miss the days where I could take a shower without using a wash cloth (because the pressure was so great).

Most people would not complain about the PSI at my house. I'm just one of those people that miss my childhood days when it was a treat to take a strong shower. I know I'm not the only one who misses those showers from back in the day.

http://www.ronhazelton.com/projects/how_to_increase_water_pressure_in_your_home

If money is no object, there must be a practical way to increase the PSI in my shower. I like it like a sandblasting fire hose. I have standard copper pipes.

1 inch incoming at the basement, then 3/4 inch at the water heater and 1/2 inch from the water heater going all the way to the shower head. My upstairs sinks have 1/4 straw-like copper pipes on the 2nd floor. The water pressure is excellent there. My 2nd floor upstairs jacuzzi tub has insane water pressure going into the bathtub. I believe this is because the water is coming unrestricted out of 3/4 pipe into the tub.

I would kill for that pressure at my shower head.
 
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Valveman

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That Scala pump thing can only produce 35 PSI at 10 GPM. So you would need 105 PSI coming in from the city to make that work. And that is 105 after the pump starts sucking on the city line. A booster pump usually draws the city pressure down quite a bit lower than static pressure.

Pressure and flow testing is easy. Get a pressure gauge that attaches to a hose bibb or faucet. With this gauge attached to an outside faucet or a boiler drain in the house run the shower at max flow. Measure in a bucket how many gallons you get in a minute from the shower. Then go out and see what the pressure on the gauge is while the shower is still running.

Then we will have to guess at how much water the shower will let out after adding a booster pump to achieve higher pressure. And we will have to guess at what the incoming pressure will be when the booster pump is running. Then we will have a target pressure and volume to shoot for, so we can size a pump and design a system.

I still don't understand why such high pressure is needed. The 60 PSI constant from my Cycle Stop Valve makes it feel like a car wash wand in my shower. But we can give you as much pressure as you want.
 

Gregmech26

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I will have to do that.

As you mentioned, something may be wrong with my system.

Here is what the City emailed me:

"Our staff checked the pressure at the hydrant near your home yesterday and it was 78 psi. They tried to check the pressure at your outside spigot, but were unable to as the spigot was turned off. They did confirm that your shut off valve is completely open. You may want to check your internal valves, etc. if you are seeing 50 psi in your home.

There was some redistricting during the time when the elevated storage tower was built. The pressure district boundaries were put back after construction was completed. The water pressure seen by customers is dependent on the elevation of their home (low elevations see a higher pressure and high elevations see a lower pressure). As noted previously, I would expect you to see around 70+ psi at your home based on the water system engineering design pressure and your home elevation of about 892'. The system pressure is related to water level in the tower.

Again, our staff found the pressure to be 78 psi at the hydrant near your home yesterday. Please let me know if have any other questions.

Thanks."
 

Valveman

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"The system pressure is related to water level in the tower."

In other words they can't turn the pressure up because the height of the tower limits the pressure. We work with a lot of cities who end up needing to make their water tower(s) taller for that very reason. Even a small tower is going to be a quarter million bucks or so to make the legs longer. We usually end up putting a Cycle Stop Valve booster pump station under the tower to boost the pressure for a tiny fraction of that cost. We just take the 78 PSI coming from the tower and boost it to 100 PSI or whatever they want. The Cycle Stop Valve just makes the booster pump holds that 100 PSI constant no matter how much or how little water the city is using. Sometimes the city engineers will even realize that the tower is no longer doing anything, is no longer a limit to the pressure they can have, and they stopped having water hammer and breaking mainlines. But most would never stop using those extremely expensive water towers, even though that is an ancient design. Many still think pressure comes from a water tower, which is the opposite of the truth. Pressure and flow come from the pump. Period. All a tower or large pressure tank does is limit the times the pump cycles on and off.

But I digress. Sorry!

You can do the same pressure boosting on a small scale for just your house. You just need a close estimate on the amount of flow and pressure needed.
 

Gregmech26

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I'm going to purchase one of those "pressure gauges" at Home Depot after our sprinkler system is opened for the Summer next week.

On other fronts. I located this pump which claims to go well over 300 psi:

https://www.ferguson.com/product/gr...ster-pump-g91128527/_/R-3320829?skuId=3320829

Here is an email I received from Grundfos regarding their SCALA2 pump:

"Thank you for contacting Grundfos Product Support. The maximum inlet pressure for the SCALA2 is 85 psi. Also, the maximum system pressure cannot exceed 145 psi, or else the pump will not operate effectively. There are more details about this in the product guide, or the data sheet. If you would like more information from the Installation & Operation manual, it can be made available upon request."

Keep in mind, I'm a giant "Big & Tall" guy at 6'5 tall and 350 lbs with size 16 shoes. My shower head has a lot of "circumference" to spray!

At this point, I have two issues:

1. The hot water completely running out after a 12 minute shower with my 50 gallon "fast recovery" water heater.

2. The water pressure being too "mild" for my taste. It's a quality of life issue in my opinion.

Speaking of car washes, do they use pumps to get the water pressure so strong? I need an "indoor car wash" for my shower.

I will report back with the numbers.
 
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Valveman

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A high pressure washer like a car wash pump builds about 1500 PSI at 1.5 GPM flow. When you figure out what the pressure and flow to your shower really is, we can find a pump to make it stronger. I still think the water lines to the shower is the restriction. If the city is supplying 60-88 PSI it should knock you down in the shower. But if you have 78 PSI coming in and the lines are too small to the shower, you may only be getting 30 PSI or so to the shower. Then you can either put in larger lines to the shower or put in a pump system that will boost enough pressure to push more through the small lines.
 

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I'm going to purchase one of those "pressure gauges" at Home Depot after our sprinkler system is opened for the Summer next week.
Why wait?

It will be interesting to see what the pressure reading is at the WH drain during a shower.
 

Gregmech26

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Well the good news is I purchased a "water pressure gauge" at Home Depot for about $11 including tax.

I have a bucket.

I assume the bucket is 1 gallon?

I'm going to test the PSI at the outside hose spigot, because the WH outlet valve doesn't have a handle. Apparently the WH valve needs a screw driver to turn the valve "open-and- closed." I'm just not comfortable tinkering with the WH valve considering I'm an amateur at plumbing and have never done anything like that before.

I have lived in this house for 30 years, ever since I was in middle school. I'm pretty confident the copper pipes are in excellent shape with no restrictions. The city use to supply over 100 psi back in the day.

Most people would never complain about the water pressure in my house. I'm just eccentric!! I miss the good old days where I would get sand-blasted by the shower pressure. The water stream out of my shower head use to pound the back of the shower stall because the psi was so strong. Today, I can literally place one hand over the shower head and stop the water flow.

The plumbing lines are standard 1/2 copper pipe; however, on the second floor where the copper pipes are reduced the 1/4 "straws" leading into the sinks the psi is incredibly strong. Our 2nd floor jacuzzi has excellent psi out of the 3/4 pipes; however ,the psi in the 2nd floor bathtub with 1/2 pipe is horrible. Go figure?

Back in the day, we use to constantly get "hammer" in the pipes. Nowadays "hammer" never occurs. We haven't had "hammer" for 20 years.

If I were to guess, I would say my issue is because the City psi is much lower than it was 2o-to-30 years ago. The psi, although considered excellent, just doesn't "sandblast" like it use to be. I use to be able to take an 8-to-10 minute shower back in the day because the psi was so strong.

I wonder if we use to have a 100 gallon water heater back then, as opposed to our 50 gallon WH today? Would that make any significant difference in psi?

At any rate, thanks for everyone's input. I will post the results of the GPM "bucket test" and pressure gauge readings hopefully by Monday!

I'm just looking to increase my GPM or PSI by approximately 50% (if I'm wording that correctly considering pressure/flow/etc).
 
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Reach4

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I have a bucket.

I assume the bucket is 1 gallon?
The popular big orange ones from HD are 5 gallons.

I think you should be braver with the WH drain. Besides not having to go outside, that provides the number closest to the shower. It's not that outside won't be useful, but if there is a restriction before the WH, the outside reading might not reflect that.

With your pressure gauge, you can have someone watch the pressure while you turn on the shower, you can run outside for a couple readings, or you could take a movie of the gauge while you go turn the shower on and off.
 

Gregmech26

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If I knew how to "open-and-close" the WH valve with the screw driver, without causing damage, I might consider it.

Take a look at this thread from ore than 10 years ago. This guy sounds like me!

He even thinks 60 psi is "just okay" compared to the 120 psi he was accustomed to loving.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-pressure-booster.8364/

I feel a little better now knowing I wasn't completely crazy with my quest.

It just goes to show you how water pressure, air conditioning, climate control, art, love, food, weather, beauty, etc. is so subjective and depends a lot on our life experiences. It's not a matter of right or wrong.

What someone finds too cold ,another find too hot and uncomfortable. What someone finds too ugly ,another thinks is the most beautiful. And so on...

It's a matter of preference.

One thing is for sure, I could never afford to "hire my own engineer" as someone suggested in that 10-year-old post. . perhaps I just need to move to another city where they have high PSI.

I also notice when my sprinkler system is running , the shower pressure is greatly reduced. Anyways, I really don't need a "whole-house" booster, as I just need strong PSI in my personal basement shower.

Another interesting thread with mixed opinions:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r29270853-Plumbing-Correcting-low-city-water-pressure

One issue to deal with is that I don't have "low City psi" to begin with. Increasing the psi at the shower head (from 60-88 to 120) seems like a challenge.

Thanks for reading. Numbers coming soon...
 
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Reach4

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If I knew how to "open-and-close" the WH valve with the screw driver, without causing damage, I might consider it.
Does yours look like the brass valve pictured in this thread? https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/question-concerning-water-heater-drain-valve.68286/#post-506841
I think the thing to do is to get a flat blade screwdriver with a big tip that matches the width of the slot. Counterclockwise (CCW) to open the valve, and then CW to close. In case there is no stop, remember the position of the slot in the closed position, but I would bet there is a slot.
 

Cacher_Chick

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One thing you will need to consider is that most of the new faucets and things like the fill valve in the toilets are all plastic now, and they were not designed for water pressure over 80 PSI. If you want to build a 120 psi shower, the rest of the plumbing should be isolated from that extreme pressure.
 

Gregmech26

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Thanks to everyone for their input. I really appreciate each response, as well as all the responses I received from my other thread from about 2 months ago.

RESULTS:

I get just under 6 GPM with my shower head.

I had 72 PSI at the Water Heater while the shower was running at 6 GPM.
This measurement was recorded on Sunday night around 11:3opm Eastern time.

I had 66 PSI at the outside hose spigot (on the other side of the house) while the shower was running at 6 GPM.
This measurement was recorded 10 minutes later around 11:40pm Eastern time.

Visually, the water pressure looks MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger coming out of that hose spigot, than the water pressure in my shower head.

For example, I can barely place my hand underneath the hose spigot without my hand being pushed aside. I would love to have that kind of water pressure coming out of my shower head.

To fix my problem I suppose I want:

1.) Around 8-to-10 GPM in my shower head.
2.) About 100-120 psi

...unless there is a blockage of some kind in the pipes, because the water pressure coming out of the hose spigot is INSANELY STRONG at only 66 psi! Trust me when I say this.

On a side note, I noticed all my friends (and every other house for that matter) has MUCH lower water pressure than me, but they're happy with it.

I guess I'm in the rare category of people who like very strong water pressure in their showers for 15 minutes.

Perhaps I should measure the GPM at the outside hose spigot? Will that tell me anything?

Any input would be appreciated, good or bad.

Plus, I just realized (since I measured in the dark of night) that our hose spigots have some kind of giant "water-saving" back-flow preventer device which is screwed onto the outlet. This is because the City demanded everyone do it or we would be fined.

I'm confident if I re-tested the hose spigot with this "device" removed, the PSI and GPM at the hose spigot would very likely be much higher.

77 or 78 psi at the hydrant to 72 psi at my water heater in the basement is normal?
 
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Reach4

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I get just under 6 GPM with my shower head.
That is a lot. Is that measured by filling a 5-gallon bucket in 51 seconds?

I am suspecting that you might have a large rain shower showerhead.
 
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