Where to buy water softener?

[bingow]

We're stuck with a 28" x 60" closet for water heater, softener, wholehouse filter, and a couple of plumbing access panels. Garage is detached, unheated, uninsulated. Height of the softener isn't a big problem, just the footprint. I just ordered a water meter (gallons) and once installed (looks easy) I'll take the average of several days readings to help firm up the sizing. Thanks for all the inputs.

What's left is the OP's original question. Would asking for a PM be out of line?

 

[Bannerman]

Some salt suppliers will deliver and add the salt to the brine tank for you. Don't know the cost but may be worthwhile.

Stores had commonly sold 40Kg (88 lbs) bags previously but I no longer see them but only see 18.1 Kg (40 lb) and some are selling 11 Kg (24 lb) bags. If you have difficulties, perhaps a Grandchild will assist?

Many people overestimate water consumption, but if you are retired and mostly home much of the time, you could use more water than average.

Modern, fixtures and appliances usually reduce water consumption which is why averages are now often estimated at 50-60 GPD per person instead of 75 GPD as had occurred previously. Some people use less than 50 but good to estimate a little higher (75?) if you often have guests that stay over.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bingow]

Thanks Bannerman; yes we still have options left, but DIY is in our DNA. I can handle the forty pounders; wife cannot, but wants to. Yes, home all day, with many 1.6 gal flushes, on into the night... you'll see, someday. Under-kitchen-sink R.O. is also a water user, and we use it to the max. And, our existing undersized softener with its frequent regeneration (every 3rd day; 4th max) of course wastes both salt and water. All this of course is trivial in the Big Picture: life is good.

 

[Reach4]

And, our existing undersized softener with its frequent regeneration (every 3rd day; 4th max)

If your new softener has 3x as much resin, expect the number of days between regen to be around 3x too.

 

[bingow]

In case I misinterpret, you mean if currently 3 days, with 3x resin then 9 days? That would be great. Our current softener's tank is 9x35, which I believe has 1 cu. ft. resin. Also, I mentioned in another post somewhere, our softener calls for our hardness of 62gpg to be set in the control panel, but after experimenting (and using so much salt) we settled on 45 and it's livable. I guess I need to do a hardness test out of the softener as another data point.

 

[Reach4]

In case I misinterpret, you mean if currently 3 days, with 3x resin then 9 days?

That is what I meant. Now it is possible that the small softener uses a salt-inefficient 15 lb/cuft of salt for regen getting 30000 grains . You will probably use 8 lb per cubic ft (getting 72000) to 6 lb/cuft (getting 63000 grains of softening). You will be getting more softening per pound of salt.

See the chart on https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983

So why do you want to be able to go a week between regenerations? Each night at about 2AM, the softener checks to see if it has enough remaining capacity to make it through the next day. If it has enough to meet the reserve, it waits. If not enough, it regens. So you might average leaving around 1/2 day of salt unused.

If you are regenerating every 3 days, 1/2 day is significant. If regenerating about every 7 days, less significant.

 

[Bannerman]

A softener containing 1 ft3 resin is normally installed in a 9" X 48" tank. As your tank is only 35" tall, it likely contains only 3/4 ft3.

Further to what Ditttohead has said about the efficiency of specialized resin, almost all softeners may be programmed for higher efficiency depending on the Capacity setting. For instance, a 1 ft3 unit programmed to regenerate when all 32,000 grains resin capacity has been depleted, will require 20 lbs salt each cycle to regenerate that capacity. By reducing the Capacity setting so it will regenerate when 24,000 grains has been depleted, then only 8 lbs salt will be needed, increasing the efficiency substantially. (Hardness Reduction Efficiency: 24000 / 8 = 3,000 gr/lb).

See examples below:

 

[Bannerman]

You said your water hardness is 62 GPG. Is that the hardness amount determined by an actual water test, or is that the hardness amount that was programmed in your softener?

By programming a lower hardness setting than is actually in the water, you are then causing the softener to deliver more gallons before regeneration should be occurring. While the water directly after regeneration will be soft, the hardness removal capacity will become exhausted long before the next regeneration is to occur.

When the water hardness is actually 62 gpg, there will be additional hardness that must be anticipated which is why Ditttohead said your hardness setting and capacity calculations are to be based on 80 gpg. If your actual hardness is less, less additional compensation may be applicable.

In reviewing the chart above, the recommended softener containing 3 ft3 resin is listed in the left column. Scanning to the right across that line will show 72,000 grs usable Capacity when regenerated with 8 lbs/ft3 (24 lbs total) per regeneration cycle.

Anticipating 75 gallons per person X 2 X 80 gpg = 12,000 grains/day softening load.
72,000 gr Capacity / 12,000 = 6 days estimated regeneration frequency - 1 day reserve = 5-6 days days actual estimated frequency while using 24 lbs salt per regeneration.

 

[bingow]

[QUOTE="Reach4 ...it is possible that the small softener uses a salt-inefficient 15 lb/cuft of salt for regen getting 30000 grains . You will probably use 8 lb per cubic ft (getting 72000) to 6 lb/cuft (getting 63000 grains of softening)...
Each night at about 2AM, the softener checks to see if it has enough remaining capacity to make it through the next day. If it has enough to meet the reserve, it waits. If not enough, it regens. So you might average leaving around 1/2 day of salt unused... If you are regenerating every 3 days, 1/2 day is significant. If regenerating about every 7 days, less significant.[/QUOTE]

I'm finally understanding the importance of that. I have that chart and am shooting for the 8lb range.

[QUOTE="Bannerman ... A softener containing 1 ft3 resin is normally installed in a 9" X 48" tank. As your tank is only 35" tall, it is likely it contains only 3/4 ft3.... Further to what Ditttohead has said about the efficiency of a specialized resin, almost all softeners may be programmed for higher efficiency depending on the Capacity setting. For instance, a 1 ft3 unit programmed to regenerate when all 32,000 grains resin capacity has been depleted, will require 20 lbs salt each cycle to regenerate that capacity... [/QUOTE]

All that sounds spot on. Just by eyeball on the salt level (cabinet type tank), I'd guess 1/3 up to ½ of a 40lb bag per regen.

 

[Bannerman]

To make the quotation work properly, ensure the square brackets [Q_OTE] and [/Q_OTE] are included around the QUOTE words after pasting in the copied text.

 

[bingow]

@Bannerman just saw your latest. Yes, it was a proper lab test, (a specialty lab in Alamogordo) done a couple months ago, about $38 for hardness test alone. We've long suspected that using a lower setting was causing problems, and of course it resulted in inconsistent water "feel".
In addition to the water meter I've ordered, I ordered a Hach test kit so to test our hardness out of the softner right after regen, and two and three days later. I know it's going to be bad news. But with the data vs guesswork, and the inputs received here, we should end up having high confidence in the new system. Can't thank you all enough for your generous help and time.

 

[bingow]

To make the quotation work properly, ensure the square brackets [Q_OTE] and [/Q_OTE] are included around the QUOTE words after pasting in the copied text.

Aha! Thanks. A carryover from an automotive forum that I've been dormant on.

 

[Reach4]

Stores had commonly sold 40Kg (88 lbs) bags previously but I no longer see them but only see 18.1 Kg (40 lb) and some are selling 11 Kg (24 lb) bags.

My salt from Sams is 44 lb of pellets. The solar salt there is 40 lb. Costco has 50 lb. Sams also has 25 lb blocks. https://www.samsclub.com/p/morton-system-saver-brine-block-25-lbs/151052

 

[bingow]

I work with many reputable companies, I will send you a PM.

I'm in south central NM, with no know nearby dealers for 96k grain Fleck-component softeners (ruling out the two super-expensive, highly advertised, non-DIY brands). The more I read, especially in this forum, about buying online, the more I'm running out of "comfortable" possibilities. Our single local plumbing supplier, and also my plumber, both offer North Star, but it tops out at 70K grains. Ninety minutes away are the two popular big box home stores, offering some smaller units of a mix of brands. I just installed a water meter to verify use, and have a Hach 5 kit on the way to double check hardness, so I'm getting close to sizing my new system. Your earlier calculation of 3 ft3/96k single tank system is looking more and more likely what I'll go with. Then, I'll just need to find a source. Suggestions would be highly appreciated.

 

[ditttohead]

PM sent

 

[ditttohead]

oops, user error.

 

[Ed Lee]

I work with many reputable companies, I will send you a PM.

Can you send me some reputable companies as well.

 

[amcgee2842]

Well I almost pulled the trigger on affordablewater. But after reading a lot on this board I’m not so sure that’s the best bet. But it’s almost the only place I can get a 5812 on a softener and a catalyzed carbon filter.

What did you hear about affordablewater was about to purchase from them.