When toilet backs up, water seeps from base

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forgoil1

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I just installed a new toilet, including a brand new cast-iron flange, all new subflooring, new wax ring..."the works"...

I haven't had a single problem with leaking during normal use...it's been dry as a bone everywhere.

Recently, we've been having some problems with our laterals (we're on sewer), and the toilet has been backing up periodically. This is where my problems begin...

When the toilet backs up, water starts to seep from the BASE of the toilet...I don't see how this can happen when there isn't the slightest hint of a leak any other time. Further, for all the problems I had with the OLD toilet, it NEVER leaked from the base!

Finally, the guy who cleans the laterals indicates this is no cause for alarm, and doesn't necessarily indicate a problem witha faulty seal (etc). He says it is not uncommon for the pressure caused from the backup to cause ANY toilet to seep water like this. I hate to call a professional on his experience, but I'm finding it hard to accept this answer.

Is he right? I'm of the opinion that a toilet should never EVER seep water from the base for ANY reason, and I'm feeling very frustrated. I don't even know where to begin to fix this because it is 100% leak free during normal operation (ie not backing up).

Any ideas/opinions on this?
 

Mikey

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Sounds like a leaking wax ring seal. Not bad enough to leak when water is flowing freely downhill (plumbing rule #1), but when the throat is full of water under the pressure of the backed-up stuff, it could ooze out. Either the ring didn't completely fill the toilet-to-flange gap, or the toilet moved and broke the seal at some point. I'd pull the toilet and check the seal -- you might see where it was leaking. Measure the toilet outlet height above the floor (put a straightedge across the toilet and see what the gap is up to the throat). Measure the height of the flange above the floor. Subtract to see how thick the ring will be when fully squashed. Compare to thickness of new wax ring. If that all computes OK, clean things up and re-set the toilet, being very careful not to rock the toilet as it's descending on the wax. Good luck...
 

forgoil1

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Thanks for your time, but I have a question.

Is it possible I just need to tighten the base to the floor more? In other words, everything is ok, I just need to make a tighter adjustment to the floor in order to strengthen the seal? I try not to over do it when it comes to plumbing, so what do you think?
 

Jadnashua

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If the toilet rocks in the slightest, you need to replace the seal. Tightening the bolts more than enough to hold the toilet in place does nothing except risk cracking the porcelain. The toilet needs to be sitting flat on the floor with no movement. The wax is not resilient like rubber, and any rocking will cause it to fail by stretching, pulling away, and not sealing again.

Normally, there is very little to no pressure on the outlet of the toilet, so assuming things are lined up, other than to keep sewer gasses from leaking out, the seal does little in keeping water from leaking out - it basically just falls done the hole. But, if there is an obstruction, and things back up, any leak will allow it to escape the drainage system.
 

Plumber1

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Frog the answer is no.......You should re-set toilet with a new wax ring and you might want to buy a good pair of closet bolts too.
 

forgoil1

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The toilet doesn't rock at all. I've just finished remodeling the entire bathroom, and everything from floor to flange to seal top toilet is brand new and the install is just over a month old.

Again, there are absolutely zero problems with normal operations, and there are no "obvious" signs (rocking, etc) to cause this.

It has been very cold (25 degrees) the past few mornings, so I'm thinking a combination of hard wax + backup is the culprit. The guy who cleans the laterals tells me I shouldn't worry about it, especially considering we just did a clean install of everything just a month ago. As long as the toilet doesn't back up, there are no problems - it's dry as a bone.

I'm just concerned because I don't think it should ever seep like that, but short of double ringing it, I don't see a real way to stop it, not to mention how hard it is to test for it by deliberately causing my toilet to back up.
 

Verdeboy

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It sounds like you don't want to pull this toilet. If it never backs up again, then you've made the right decision.

If you don't want to see any more seepage, you can put a nice thick bead of silicone caulk around your toilet. However, this won't stop your floor from rotting out under your toilet if it is seeping behind the caulk.
 

Jadnashua

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Bottom line as I see it, if you have a proper seal between the toilet and the flange, it won't leak. Yours leaks, thus, the seal has failed either from improper installation, a bad glue joint between the pipes, agressive plunging blowing out the seal, or possibly one of other situations like maybe a defect in the toilet. the most likely event is a compromised seal...since it only costs a buck or two, it is the easiest and cheapest thing to check and replace...
 
V

vaplumber

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If the seal is good it should never leak. We are in septic system hell around here and no body cleans there tanks as they should. Ive saw bath tubs half full of sewer water from clogged septic tanks, showers over flow into the floor, and toilets full to the rim, and all toilets with good wax seals no leakage. If a good wax seal leaks, then leave it off when you replace the toilet. Then you wont have one to worry about. They will flush without one and as long as you dont over do it the low flow toilets wont leak water either (the hole in the bottom of your toilet is smaller than most flanges are anyway)unless you want to count sewer gas as a leak.
 
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