What type of material is this pipe, and why did water start flowing out of it, after 15 years dry?

[Tireshark]

https://imgur.com/gIQjCso

This is a black plastic'ish pipe sticking up from a slab floor in an outdoor workshop. It is pretty thin, and can be compressed. I measured it and it is roughly 20.6mm (13/16") ID and 23.8mm (15/16") OD. Rough measurement, because it is slightly ovaled and the edges are frayed.

I tried to use a 3/4" sharkbite end cap on it, and the pipe was just barely too big to fit. Does anyone know what type of pipe this is, so I can put an end cap on it?

It's in a rent house I have been taking care of for 15 years, and I have no idea what it went to, as it has always just been sticking up out of the ground, and there is no crawl space below. Today water started leaking out of this pipe, and I have no idea what is causing it.

When I went to the water meter, the box was full of water, which implies there is a leak somewhere, and I'm assuming it is related to water suddenly appearing out of this pipe which has been sitting there uncapped and dry for 15+ years.

I turned the water meter off for 30 minutes, and water continued to flow out of this pipe, (and water refilled the meter box, although that might have been residual ground water at the meter box). When the water is being used in the house water flows out of this pipe faster than when the water is off, but it flows out of the pipe at all times... faucet on, faucet off, meter off.

Any ideas as to what is causing this?

 

[Reach4]

If you turn off the valve at the entrance to the house, does the water meter indicate flow?

It would be interesting to use a sensitive chlorine test to see if the water in the meter box is chlorinated.

You might ask the water department for help on this. Maybe there is a leak upstream of the meter.

When the water is being used in the house water flows out of this pipe faster than when the water is off,

That is really weird IMO. The only think that I can think of is there is a sewer leak???

 

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[Tireshark]

Thx Reach4!

Yes after I made my post I discovered the meter was running with everything off in the house, which indicated there was a leak on our side somewhere.

I started digging at the meter box and about 4 feet back discovered a bad leak at the junction between cast iron (or galvanized or whatever it is) and PVC. As I was excavating the main line, I started hitting something about 2 inches lower, which ended up being the uncapped end of the mystery black pipe, lol. Water was pooling from the leak and gravity was forcing it down the black pipe and up into the workshop. What a mystery!

Now I have to figure out what to do with the leak. I'm assuming the PVC coupling is threaded onto the end of the metal pipe right? Should I try and unscrew it and reuse the metal threads, or will I need to cut the metal pipe and do something else?

https://imgur.com/Vxqjdc5

https://imgur.com/xnTHTYb

 

[Reach4]

Holy shit. I have not imagined a failure like that.

Most people don't have a high regard for PVC water service lines, usually. PVC expands and contracts with temperature, and if you have long straight runs, that can make pressure and tension high. For thermal effects, they often build in joints on purpose. So maybe the repair would look like the loop... adding 4 90-degree elbows.

Calculating Thermal Expansion & Contraction in Plastic Pipes

Learn how to calculate and accommodate thermal expansion and contraction when designing plumbing systems with plastic pipes like PVC and CPVC.

www.charlottepipe.com

One way to make it better, but maybe still not so good, would be to use a Schedule 80 adapter, rather than the common schedule 40. Female threaded plastic connections are usually avoided. Some have metal reinforcement, such as https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-...Schedule-80-Special-Reinforced-Female-Adapter

It was really fortunate that you had that piece of poly pipe to alert you before the whopping water bill came.

 

[John Gayewski]

If you use threaded pvc, which you shouldn't, it needs to be gray schedule 80.

 

[Tireshark]

Thanks reach and John.

I realized there is a fitting at the meter where the steel line connects, so it's only a 2 ft section to where it hits PVC. I'm thinking it's best to just eliminate the steel line and run all PVC.

I'm assuming PVC isn't the ideal method for a main line, but it's what is here, and replacing all of it would be a big undertaking right now.

Here is a close look at the fitting at the meter... not sure what type of a fitting it is, especially with a screw clamp on it. Where I have the red arrow, is that part of the steel line? Threaded onto a male nipple coming out of the meter side? If so I wonder if I could just unscrew it, and use a schedule 80 adapter like linked above?

https://imgur.com/BEvMe58

https://imgur.com/QpQWwa6

 

[Reach4]

I don't understand how these photos relate. Clearly the first one shows the meter box, where a metal pipe from the box passes water to the leaky PVC adapter.

Here is a close look at the fitting at the meter... not sure what type of a fitting it is, especially with a screw clamp on it.

I don't see a meter. Is the meter to the right of the red arrow? Are you saying that is steel pipe to the right or left of the red arrow? Use a magnet to identify steel.

Did you lift the meter box between pictures, and the meter was not in the box?

So I think I would like a better description of what is where. Maybe make a sketch, perhaps with your Paint program. Or draw on paper with a marker, and shoot a photo. Or shoot a wide photo that includes the meter box and all areas of the pipe that you have dug up.

 

[Tireshark]

On the above picture with the red arrow, the right side is the metal pipe which goes to the leaky fitting, and the left side goes into the meter box. Here is a picture of the trench, with an arrow to where that fitting is:

https://imgur.com/l0hD97c

 

[Reach4]

Got it. Yes, I could see removing that piece of pipe that is between the red arrow and the PVC.

The metal and PVC don't appear to be aligned in post #3, adding to stress. If you put in a PVC "loop", you might also be able to minimize that stress also.

That "loop" would probably be to the side, to not make the top of the loop above the frost line.

Is that 1-inch PVC?

 

[Tireshark]

3/4" PVC

That's a good catch on noticing the misalignment, which is what caused the coupler to split. I was able to temporarily stop the leak just by wedging a block between the dirt and the pipe, which straightened the pipe and closed the split gap (the grey block in post 6).

There is a lot of wiggle room with the PVC now that I have uncovered a good bit of it, so I should be able to get it on straight and then shore it up good so it doesn't move, but I will keep your suggestion in mind if it doesn't work.

 

[Reach4]

PVC Solvent Weld Adjustable Repair Pipe Coupling, 3/4 In.

Homewerks Worldwide 3/4″ Solvent Weld Adjustable Repair Pipe Coupling, expanding from 7-1/2″ to 9-3/4″ for a versatile fit. Constructed from heavy-duty PVC with a double o-ring buna-n seal, this coupling ensures reliable performance with a pressure rating of 160 psi at 73 degrees Fahrenheit...

www.truevalue.com

I think it is OK for potable. Is it OK for direct burial? You may be better off adding the PVC loop configuration.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DURA-3-...ble-Repair-Coupling-FRC-007/203598731#overlay LOOKED ineresting, but this says "non potable"

https://assets.unilogcorp.com/267/ITEM/DOC/DURA_FRC007_Specification_Sheet.pdf

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-...Coupling-Soc-x-Soc-PVC-White-with-EPDM-O-ring says for potable, but it says "Short".

That allows for easy in-line installation, and thermal expansion as long as this is not fully expanded in service.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-...Coupling-Soc-x-Soc-PVC-White-with-EPDM-O-ring or https://www.supplyhouse.com/Spears-...Coupling-Soc-x-Soc-PVC-White-with-EPDM-O-ring may be even better, since they don't say "short".

https://www.spearsmfg.com/super_sourcebook/SSB-1 Part 1 List Price Catalog/010 Compression & Repair Fittings Schedule 40.pdf is from the maker. Page 48 says Spig x Soc for S118, and S119 has two sockets. They are OK for potable.

Page 39 covers the short version.

 

[John Gayewski]

The fitting is turning copper into a female npt it's a flare x fnpt. The pvc threads probably broke becuse pvc threds are too thin.

I would unscrew the pvc from the adapter and thread in sched 80 nipple with two slip coulpings to follow.

 

[Tireshark]

Thanks for the input guys.

After some research, I think I found the exact fitting that I have... a Ford copper-PVC pack joint coupling. After cleaning the fitting, I could even see "PVC" stamped on the house side (where they currently have the 2 foot metal pipe).

I guess I will try to replace just the PVC compression nut, and then run PVC out to the break. This way I wont have to disturb the copper side of the fitting.

https://imgur.com/vhKZiEP

https://imgur.com/uQkwHmD

 

[Tireshark]

Got it hooked up. I decided to re-use the fitting, but I wanted to replace the rubber gasket where the PVC side nut attaches. Couldn't find just the gasket anywhere, so I bought the full fitting for $40 just for the gasket. Didn't realize at the time but they sold me a Legend fitting instead of Ford, so when I went to swap the nut, the threads/gasket were the wrong size. I ended up just washing the old gasket and re-using it. Left it uncovered for 3 days and there were no leaks. Thanks for the input from everyone!

https://imgur.com/ckpbsxW