What can you tell me from this picture? Water Softener

[BostonBull]

House we are buying has this setup in it. What can you tell me from this one semi crappy picture?

 

[Reach4]

Central vac... Nice.

Looks like a nice system, but don't know what the equipment is. I suggest using your camera rather than your cellphone.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ditttohead]

Hard to tell for sure, two brine tanks, two softeners, not a normal setup, very odd but better pictures would really help. Pot perm tank for greensand system, 5 pound pot perm bottle on far right. Give us better pictures please. All three are Clack valves,

 

[Mikey]

Getting a water analysis would give us an idea of what the system is trying to fix. Is this public water or private well? If public, the utility will have the analysis available, possibly on a web page.

 

[NHmaster3015]

Hard to tell for sure, two brine tanks, two softeners, not a normal setup, very odd but better pictures would really help. Pot perm tank for greensand system, 5 pound pot perm bottle on far right. Give us better pictures please. All three are Clack valves,

I'd like to see the water test results before and after. I suspect greensand too but the dual softeners? Maybe the greensand ain't enough for the iron so they stuck one softener in to help out and that didn't work so they added another? Who knows? In the filtration business there are so many fly by night outfits out there that nothing surprises me anymore.

 

[ditttohead]

I have seen many systems with dual brine tanks, but the second was a softener drain catch that uses a venturi injector on the irrigation to draw out the waste and distribute the potassium chloride waste onto the lawns, a poor mans zero waste softener. Many companies also use a brine tank as a chemical tank and they use a simple chlorine dilution regeneration for a filox or similar media, but I have never seen that combined with a pot perm greensand unit.

The mystery deepens...

 

[BostonBull]

Great info here!!!


I will get better pics and ask current owners what they can tell me about it. Will also call company who installed and ask for reports.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Or, based on the plumbing from the pressure tank on the right.... to an iron filter, then a softener and then an anion resin 'filter' for tannins, nitrates, arsenic etc..

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yea, good call. Could very well be.

 

[ditttohead]

Agreed, anion tannin, nitrate, sulfate, arsenic, etc. very likely.

 

[BostonBull]

Spoke to install company. We have a water softening set up with dual bed, one is cation and one is anion. Installed in 2011. We also have a green sand filter here. Installed in 2008. Neither have been touched since 2011.

Out of sight, right above this is a water filter that runs to a separate faucet at the kitchen sink.


Pressure tank is shot. Either want a big tank (family of 6), or a small tank and CSV.....



Questions are:
- What do I need to know about the softening equipment?
-What should I do for the water filter that leads to the kitchen sink? Whats the best system to install? Currently its an old cartridge style in there
-Thoughts on the pressure tank? Do the CSV or no?

 

[NHmaster3015]

1 - Cheaper is never better. Stay away from anything sold at big box stores or Sears. Go with either a Clack or a Fleck valve

2 - I would have to know why there is a filter going to the kitchen sink and what type of cartridge is in it.

3 - Its going to be less expensive to just replace the tank.

 

[BostonBull]

1 - refers to which valve?
2 - it is for drinking water only in a small faucet.
3 - what tank brand/model shoukd I be looking into? Are csv that much more?

 

[ditttohead]

1. The water treatment equipment, we need to know what your water is like prior to treatment so we can determine what is needed.
2. What treatment is best? An RO is simple and a catch all design, but in order to really answer your question, we need to know your water before and after treatment. I would recommend the RO w/ PP, but at minimum, TDS, Pressure, Temp would be helpful.
3. Pressure tank, I prefer the USA made ones, many available, CSV, better pros on that then me here, I will defer to them.

 

[NHmaster3015]

1 - refers to which valve?
2 - it is for drinking water only in a small faucet.
3 - what tank brand/model shoukd I be looking into? Are csv that much more?

Either Clack or Fleck

Ok, its for drinking water but what is the filter media? Is it carbon or is it a paper sediment filter? and why? You should do a water test to see what your stuff is actually treating. sometimes unscrupulous salesmen will sell equipment that is not really needed.

Whatever you can source locally although again, cheaper is not usually better. You could go with a CSV but I don't really see much of a need unless your system is grossly oversized and the pump is constantly cycling.

 

[Reach4]

A pressure tank should be sized to keep the pump running for at least 1 minute. So if your pump pumps 10 GPM, you need a draw down of 10 gallons, which would be about a 44 gallon pressure tank.

The leading pressure tank is Well-X-trol. Not cheap, but more reliable.

CSV might be cheaper.

Depending on your usage of water, CSV might result in less or more cycling. Worst case with CSV might be 40 1.1 gallon toilet flushes. Worst case for regular pressure tank would be many hours of lawn/garden watering.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Spoke to install company. We have a water softening set up with dual bed, one is cation and one is anion. Installed in 2011. We also have a green sand filter here. Installed in 2008. Neither have been touched since 2011.

Out of sight, right above this is a water filter that runs to a separate faucet at the kitchen sink.


Pressure tank is shot. Either want a big tank (family of 6), or a small tank and CSV.....



Questions are:
- What do I need to know about the softening equipment?
-What should I do for the water filter that leads to the kitchen sink? Whats the best system to install? Currently its an old cartridge style in there
-Thoughts on the pressure tank? Do the CSV or no?

Since that company has info on the equipment they sold/installed, they should have the original water test results they based the sale of the equipment on.

And you should be insisting on raw and treated water tests other than just the standard Coliform bacteria and nitrates tests before you buy this house. Or any house.

Why are you asking what you should install? Is there a water quality problem now; odor, bacteria, nitrates/nitrites, etc.?

Depending on your well pump and such, a CSV and small pressure tank can cost less than a new (usually undersized) "20 gallon" pressure tank... and the CSV will (usually) cause the well pump to last much longer service free. Which normally returns the cost over a period of time while a new, even properly sized 'normal' pressure tank is wearing out and can cause pump failure.

 

[Gary Slusser]

A pressure tank should be sized to keep the pump running for at least 1 minute. So if your pump pumps 10 GPM, you need a draw down of 10 gallons, which would be about a 44 gallon pressure tank.

The leading pressure tank is Well-X-trol. Not cheap, but more reliable.

CSV might be cheaper.

Depending on your usage of water, CSV might result in less or more cycling. Worst case with CSV might be 40 1.1 gallon toilet flushes. Worst case for regular pressure tank would be many hours of lawn/garden watering.

Or we could say many fewer cycles due to only one during all showers and laundry use and other water uses compared to many more than that one cycle with a 'standard' pressure tank set up and no CSV.

 

[BostonBull]

Either Clack or Fleck

Ok, its for drinking water but what is the filter media? Is it carbon or is it a paper sediment filter? and why? You should do a water test to see what your stuff is actually treating. sometimes unscrupulous salesmen will sell equipment that is not really needed.

Whatever you can source locally although again, cheaper is not usually better. You could go with a CSV but I don't really see much of a need unless your system is grossly oversized and the pump is constantly cycling.

Here are the results of my water test, any thoughts?



Comprehensive Scan Report

Results EPA Limits

Public Drinking Water

Total Coliform Absent Animal or Vegetational Bacteria 0

Fecal/E. Coli Absent Animal Bacteria 0

Sodium 26.90 mg/L 20.0 mg/L is Mass. DEP Guideline 250.0 mg/L

Potassium 3.46 mg/L A Component of Salt No Limit

Copper 0.01 mg/L Indicates Plumbing Corrosion 1.30 mg/L

Iron Not Detected Brown Stains, Bitter Taste 0.30 mg/L

Manganese Not Detected May Cause Laundry Staining 0.05 mg/L

Magnesium 0.38 mg/L A Component of Hardness No Limit

Calcium 1.25 mg/L A Component of Hardness No Limit

Arsenic Not Detected A Naturally Occurring Toxic Element 0.010 mg/L

Lead Not Detected A Toxic Metal 0.015 mg/L

Zinc. Not Detected A Toxic Metal 5.0 mg/L

pH 6.94 SU Acid/Basic Determination 6.5 - 8.5 SU

Turbidity 0.13 N.T.U. Presence of Particles No Limit

Color Not Detected Clarity (0), Discoloration (15) 15.0 C.U.

Odor Not Detected Odor due to Contamination 3.0 T.O.N.

Conductivity 594.0 umhos Electrical Resistance (umhos/cm) No Limit

T.D.S. 356.4 mg/L Total Dissolved Minerals Present 500.0 mg/L

Sediment Absent Undissolved Solids Present

Alkalinity 57.5 mg/L Ability to Neutralize acid No Limit

Chlorine Not Detected A Disinfectant 4.0 mg/L

Chloride 173.48 mg/L A component of salt 250.0 mg/L

Hardness 4.7 mg/L 0 - 75 is considered soft No Limit

Nitrate as Nitrogen Not Detected Indicator of Biological Waste 10.0 mg/L

Nitrite as Nitrogen Not Detected Indicator of Waste 1.0 mg/L

Ammonia as Nitrogen Not Detected Indicator of Waste No Limit

Sulfate Not Detected A Mineral, Can Cause Odor 250.0 mg/L

Radon in Water 622 pCi/L NH DEP proposed guideline 2000 pCi/L

Benzene Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

Bromobenzene Not Detected No Limit

Bromochloromethane Not Detected No Limit

Bromodichloromethane Not Detected No Limit

Bromoform Not Detected No Limit

Bromomethane Not Detected No Limit

n-Butylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

sec-Butylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

tert-Butylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

Carbon-Tetrachloride Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

Chlorodibromomethane Not Detected No Limit

Chloroethane Not Detected No Limit

Chloroform Not Detected No Limit

Chloromethane Not Detected No Limit

1,2-Chlorotoluene Not Detected No Limit

1,4-Chlorotoluene Not Detected No Limit

1,2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane Not Detected No Limit

Dibromomethane Not Detected No Limit

1,2-Dibromomethane Not Detected No Limit

1,3-Dichlorobenzene Not Detected No Limit

1,2-Dichlorobenzene Not Detected 600.0 ug/L

1,4-Dichlorobenzene Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

Dichlorodifluoromethane Not Detected No Limit

1,1-Dichloroethane Not Detected No Limit

1,2-Dichloroethane Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

1,1-Dichloroethylene Not Detected 7.0 ug/L

cis-1,2-Dichloroethene Not Detected 70.0 ug/L

trans-1,2-dichloroethene Not Detected 100.0 ug/L

1,2-Dichloropropane Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

1,3-Dichloropropane Not Detected No Limit

2,2-Dichloropropane Not Detected No Limit

1,1-Dichloropropene Not Detected No Limit

1,3-Dichloropropene Not Detected No Limit

trans-1,3-Dichloropropene Not Detected No Limit

Ethylbenzene Not Detected 700.0 ug/L

Fluorotrichloromethane Not Detected No Limit

Hexachlorobutadiene Not Detected No Limit

Isopropylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

Methyl-t-Butyl Ether (MTBE) Massachusetts DEP Limit Not Detected 70.0 ug/L

p-Isopropyltoluene Not Detected No Limit

Methylene Chloride Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

Monochlorobenzene Not Detected 100.0 ug/L

Napthalene Not Detected No Limit

n-Propylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

Styrene Not Detected 100.0 ug/L

1,1,1,2-Tetrachloroethane Not Detected No Limit

1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane Not Detected No Limit

Tetrachloroethylene Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

Toluene Not Detected 1000.0 ug/L

1,2,3-Trichlorobenzene Not Detected No Limit

1,2,4-Trichlorobenzene Not Detected 70.0 ug/L

1,1,1-Trichloroethane Not Detected 200.0 ug/L

1,1,2-Trichloroethane Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

Trichloroethylene Not Detected 5.0 ug/L

1,2,3-Trichloropropane Not Detected No Limit

1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

1,3,5-Trimethylbenzene Not Detected No Limit

Vinyl Chloride Not Detected 2.0 ug/L

o-Xylene Not Detected T. Xylenes 10K ug/

m+p Xylenes Not Detected T. Xylenes 10K ug/

 

[BostonBull]

Gary


I have been scratching my head here after quite a few calls with the water company who installed the system. I have been told that they do NOT keep that info on file and it was given to the previous owners (2 owners ago) and if we want the tests we need to pay for a new test to be performed. Very frustrating!


Who can i have come by and tell me what size/brand/model of well pump we have? This obviously will play a role in what tank and/or CSV we get.

Thanks again!!!