Well Water System Poor Pressure

[bearsbeets]

Hi, I recently (last week) moved in to a temporary new home with a well water system. I'm having issues with water pressure throughout the house and have watched countless videos on pressure tanks/switches/well systems and performed basic upkeep maintenance but am still having pressure issues:

System information:
Tank: Amtrol Champion CH12051
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Amtrol-CH12051-CH-62-62-Gal-Champion-Vertical-Stand-Well-Tank

• Date of Manufacture: 02/05/2004
• Max working pressure: 100 PSI

Motor: Franklin Electric 2445089003 Super Stainless Water Well Motor
https://www.rcworst.com/Franklin-El...tor-4-1HP-230V-2-Wire-Single-Phase-p2326.html

Pump: Myers 2NFL102-20-P4 Submersible Stainless Steel Pump
https://www.rcworst.com/Myers-2NFL1...M-1-0-HP-230V-2-Wire-Single-Phase-p14560.html

Pressure Switch: Square D 9013FSG2m1 30-50
https://americangranby.com/PDFs/S01P053.pdf

• Stock PSI range: 30 - 50 PSI

Home information:

• Sq. ft. = 3,600
• Floors = 3 (including basement)
• # bedrooms = 4
• # bathrooms = 4.5

Maintenance already performed:

1. Cycled through well water tank to see what the cut in and cut off pressures were. Resulting values were 38 - 70 PSI. Given low water pressure as the driver of my adjustments, I wanted to set this range at 40 - 60 (despite stock indicator on pressure switch of 30 - 50).
2. Drained well water tank completely and tested air pressure. The reading said 9 PSI. I filled this up to 38 PSI (2 PSI below desired range of 40 - 60)
3. Refilled well water tank with water. Tightened the big spring in the pressure switch to increase the cut in value to 40. I loosened the differential (smaller) spring until the spring had no more tension to it, and that reduced the cut out pressure to 65. This leaves a total differential of 25 PSI.

Issue
When the water tank refills to ~65 PSI, pressure in all faucets is great. However, the pressure in the tank drops (as indicated by watching the pressure gauge) to below 55, the pressure in the faucets is greatly reduced. Therefore, from 65 - 55 pressure everything is great and dandy, but then from 55-40 until the pump kicks on again everything is not so great.

Please see photos of the system and components attached to this thread.

 

[Reach4]

Look for a source of restriction on the way to the shower. In particular, is there a cartridge filter, or any other filter or a softener? Finding that a new filter cartridge fixes this would be great.

To help diagnose, I would get a garden hose thread pressure gauge, and connect that to the WH drain or a laundry tap. The point would be to see how much pressure gets that far when you are using water for a shower etc.

If you cannot identify some restriction, I would get a new pressure switch (20 psi differential) and crank the water pressure up to 50/70 or even 55/75 presuming that the water pressure continues to climb at a good rate on the way to cutoff. Adjust the precharge, of course.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bearsbeets]

Look for a source of restriction on the way to the shower. In particular, is there a cartridge filter, or any other filter or a softener? Finding that a new filter cartridge fixes this would be great.

To help diagnose, I would get a garden hose thread pressure gauge, and connect that to the WH drain or a laundry tap. The point would be to see how much pressure gets that far when you are using water for a shower etc.

If you cannot identify some restriction, I would get a new pressure switch (20 psi differential) and crank the water pressure up to 50/70 or even 55/75 presuming that the water pressure continues to climb at a good rate on the way to cutoff. Adjust the precharge, of course.

@Reach4 , thanks for the reply.

I'll look into restrictions in water flow, that's a good idea. I have two questions, however:

1. As for a new pressure switch, is there a potential harm in pumping up the pressure to 55-75, for example? The tank says it can go up to 100 PSI and the pressure relief valve also says 100 PSI.
2. Given (i) the large differential I found when first cycling through the system (32 PSI differential, 38 - 70), and (ii) the very low air pressure inside the tank (9 PSI), is there a chance that there is any permanent damage to the tank / bladder as a result of the wide differential that possibly existed for 15+ years?

 

[Reach4]

As for a new pressure switch, is there a potential harm in pumping up the pressure to 55-75, for example? The tank says it can go up to 100 PSI and the pressure relief valve also says 100 PSI.

I don't think so.

Given (i) the large differential I found when first cycling through the system (32 PSI differential, 38 - 70), and (ii) the very low air pressure inside the tank (9 PSI), is there a chance that there is any permanent damage to the tank / bladder as a result of the wide differential that possibly existed for 15+ years?

It's OK to start shopping in advance, but that's a very good diaphragm tank that you have there. It may be good for another 15 or 20 years. If the diaphragm were to go bad (that's the normal failure mode), you can make the tank serve you for many weeks by adding air from a compressor to compensate. So no need to treat that as an emergency. No need to do a PM tank change IMO.

 

[Valveman]

You don't have a restriction. That 38 to 78 range is your problem. It takes almost 30 PSI to just get water to the top floor. Then if you want some pressure, you need to add it to the 30 PSI static head. When it got down to 38 you only had about 8 PSI at the shower. If the pump can do it I would run a 60/80 pressure switch, use a much smaller tank, and set a CSV1A to hold 70 PSI constant. A 10 gallon size tank would be best, but no larger than 20 gallon size. With the larger tank your system is at the low pressure for too long before the pump comes on. With the small tank the pump is on and the pressure is at a strong 70 PSI very quickly. A constant 70 PSI from a CSV in that house would be like night and day compared to what you have now.

 

[bearsbeets]

I don't think so.

Perfect, okay thanks

That 38 to 78 range is your problem. It takes almost 30 PSI to just get water to the top floor.

Agreed. And I was able to get this differential to shrink slightly from 40 - 65, but that's the best I can do with the old switch. I'll likely get a new pressure switch and install after cleaning some of the filters to the faucets and see if that does the trick, as opposed to doing anything regarding a replacement water tank for now.

 

[LLigetfa]

Test the pump for what its deadhead pressure is before jacking it to 60/80. What you don't want is for the pump to deadhead at 79 PSI and melt down. Do keep in mind that the static water level in the well can fluctuate with the amount of water used so test after a heavy draw for good measure.

 

[bearsbeets]

Test the pump for what its deadhead pressure is before jacking it to 60/80. What you don't want is for the pump to deadhead at 79 PSI and melt down. Do keep in mind that the static water level in the well can fluctuate with the amount of water used so test after a heavy draw for good measure.

Right, I don't think I would go higher than 50/70. Upon further inspection, it appears that pressure drops in the faucets because they are loaded with sediment, as it looks like faucet sprayheads are original as of 15 yrs ago. Would you recommend I simply replace the pressure switch back to a 40/60 and order new sprayheads/faucets? I don't want to jack up the pressure only to burn the pump quickly.

 

[LLigetfa]

You could start with a new switch set at 50/70 and so long as the 50 PSI bottom end is not insufferable then fine. Often it is just the variable pressure that comes with regular pump cycling up and down that irks one. A cycle stop valve would keep a constant pressure past the initial drawdown needed to start the pump. That 62 gallon tank just means you need to wait longer for the drawdown. Having a higher setpoint reduces the drawdown and reduces the suffering waiting for the pump to come on before you have constant pressure.

Having higher pressure is not harder on the pump. You just don't want to get so far off the curve that you risk reaching deadhead pressure. Contrary to popular thinking, higher pressure is actually easier on the pump. Many pumps even draw less amps at the higher pressure than at lower pressure. Most folks cannot wrap their mind around how a centrifugal pump works. Not just common folk, even many engineers can't.

I have mine set at 40/60 and find it adequate but then I am limited due to using a micronizer with a hydro-pneumatic tank for treating iron. I designed my home and did my own plumbing to ensure I would not have water pressure problems. I do regular maintenance on all of the faucet aerators to dissolve mineral buildup.

 

[bearsbeets]

You could start with a new switch set at 50/70 and so long as the 50 PSI bottom end is not insufferable then fine. Often it is just the variable pressure that comes with regular pump cycling up and down that irks one.

Thanks, I just ordered a pre-set 50/70 from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013WY2NH8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). If I find the 50/70 isn't ideal I can always adjust it lower, right?

Regardless, it's on back order and won't get here until May 8th so I'll be sure to update the forum after I install.

Thanks for the help thus far.

 

[LLigetfa]

If I find the 50/70 isn't ideal I can always adjust it lower, right?

Yes, they can be adjusted up or down. You might want to get a new pressure gauge to confirm the one you have is reading right. Get one with a garden hose thread and you can use it for other testing as well.

 

[Reach4]

If you get a new screw-in pressure gauge, you still might one that is 0-100 rather than 0-200.

There is some advantage to liquid filled. If I get a new one, I plan to get liquid filled. Not a big deal, but not a big price increase either.

 

[bearsbeets]

You might want to get a new pressure gauge

If you get a new screw-in pressure gauge, you still might one that is 0-100 rather than 0-200.

There is some advantage to liquid fille

Thanks very much - I'll definitely look into this prior to installing the new pressure switch when it comes in a few weeks.

 

[Valveman]

The CSV with a smaller tank would be better. But the CSV will still work with the 62 gallon tank. With a 50/70 pressure switch the CSV1A would be set to hold a constant 65 PSI. You will have to wait for the 15 gallons in the 62 gallon tank to be used while you are feeling the pressure drop all the way from 70 down to 50. But once the pump comes on the CSV will deliver a strong constant 65 PSI for as long as water is being used. Again, 65 PSI constant will be like night and day compared to 50 to 70 over and over, especially on the top floor.

 

[bearsbeets]

*Update*

While waiting for the new pressure switch to arrive, I thought I'd check the air pressure in the tank again. I hooked up a garden house to the tank drain, and when the water was nearly done coming out, a rush of air shot out the garden hose. I checked the pressure in the tank and it had dropped to 9 PSI, the original value from my check initially. Is this an indication that the tank/threshold may be damaged?

 

[Reach4]

*Update*

While waiting for the new pressure switch to arrive, I thought I'd check the air pressure in the tank again. I hooked up a garden house to the tank drain, and when the water was nearly done coming out, a rush of air shot out the garden hose. I checked the pressure in the tank and it had dropped to 9 PSI, the original value from my check initially. Is this an indication that the tank/threshold may be damaged?

Yes. The tank needs to be replaced.

If it were just air in the water, that could be explained in another possible way. If the air pressure dropped, that could be explained in another way. Together, it's time to replace that tank.

Add air to let the current tank serve until the new one gets put in.

 

[bearsbeets]

Yes. The tank needs to be replaced.

Oh geez. Okay. I'm adding more air now, and will re-fill with water. Three questions:

1. Is the air leak due to a cracked threshold (diaphragm) or similar reason?
2. And is this possibly because of the large differential (38-70) that existed for 10+ years before I moved in?
3. If we do not replace the tank, is the only issue we will experience low water pressure throughout the house? i.e. as opposed to an expedited wearing out of the pump or some other negative to having a busted tank?

 

[LLigetfa]

Is the air leak due to a cracked threshold or similar reason?

I don't know what you mean by threshold. I assume you mean the diaphragm or bladder. A high differential does put a strain on the diaphragm.

The tank has nothing to do with low water pressure. The pressure comes from the pump. A waterlogged tank will have a much smaller drawdown so the pump will run more often and for shorter cycles. The short cycles will eventually kill the pump.

 

[bearsbeets]

I assume you mean the diaphragm

Correct, yes meant to say "diaphragm"

The tank has nothing to do with low water pressure. The pressure comes from the pump.

And can you explain what you mean by this? My understanding is the pump has nothing to do with pressure. The pump simply "pumps" water into the pressure tank, and the pressure tank, if adequately charged and with a functioning pressure switch, will push the water throughout the home.

 

[Reach4]

• Is the air leak due to a cracked threshold (diaphragm) or similar reason?

• And is this possibly because of the large differential (38-70) that existed for 10+ years before I moved in?

Yes, and yes.

If we do not replace the tank, is the only issue we will experience low water pressure throughout the house? i.e. as opposed to an expedited wearing out of the pump or some other negative to having a busted tank?

The main problem would be short-cycling of the pump, as the amount of air became too low. Air dissolves in water with time. The working diaphragm keeps air and water separated.