Well water chlorination system

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Eduardo Correa

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Hello all, currently use a Steiner pump to inject chlorine as water flows after pressure tank. Well water system. 5 years later it's been too much maintenance and breaks down often. Seeking advice on an alternative system that is easy to maintain and doesn't break down. Thanks to all for your advice.
 

Reach4

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Does your current system work nicely for you when it is working? The Stenner pump has a pump tube that you should replace at least annually. Is that the failure?

Tell us about your water? Does it come from a deep well or a creek or a dug well?

Iron, manganese, bacteria, etc. If you don't have lab test results, I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/
 

Eduardo Correa

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Thanks Reach,
It's a deep well, about 150ft. Hard water with iron. The Steiner pump system works well when it is working, but I've already had to replace the tubes several times, the pump once, the injection port twice and now again. Every time something goes wrong, it's a project to get the system running again. That and dragging gallons of bleach to the basement. Was looking at one of those inline tablet holders, like for a pool. Would these get me the proper amount of chlorine? Also, reading about the need for aeration with chlorination? Thanks for your help
 

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Do you have a contact tank? That would best have a blowdown port where you can drain out the settled iron etc.

Tired of carrying gallons of bleach? You may be using more than you need. Have you measured the free chlorine out of your contact tank? If you don't have a contact tank, you might consider getting one. That should reduce your bleach needs.

How much iron does your lab test report?

If you do want to get away from the chlorine injection system, search the forum for Katalox Light.
 

Eduardo Correa

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Thanks again Reach, I do have an wellmate ut80 retention tank. Ive never measured actual amount of chlorine, only presence of chlorine before carbon filter, and absence of chlorine after carbon filter. I may have been using too much bleach as I am reading 5 gallons of water to each gallon of bleach is enough. I have ordered the parts to fix the stenner pump, just curious if a simple inline chlorine tab system would give me the same results without so much maintenance.
 

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I'm curious, was the chlorination system installed to remove dissolved iron by oxidation with bleach, or was the chlorination installed to disinfect bacteria in the water?

Does the chlorinated water go directly into the charcoal filter, or do you have something that removes the oxidised iron?

BTW, 5 parts water to one part bleach (assuming 6% sodium hypochlorite content) is an EXTREMELY high dosage. In the water system I operate, we are adding 8.25% bleach to well water at a dosage of 3.0 ppm (parts per million) and oxidising a heavy content of iron and manganese quite successfully.
 

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Traveller

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It is an incorrect practice to dilute sodium hypochlorite bleach with water, unless steps are taken to adjust the pH of the diluted bleach to the original pH. Failure to do so, and to maintain the temperature of bleach (diluted or undiluted) below 50° F. will lead to the rapid breakdown of sodium hypochlorite into other compounds, some of which can be harmful after certain concentrations are reached.

Sodium hypochlorite bleach is preserved by the addition of the base sodium hydroxide, which maintains the pH of the bleach at over 12. When water, usually at a pH of 6-8, is added to bleach, the pH of the bleach is automatically lowered. Once the pH of the bleach solution is below 11.86, some of the hypochlorite (NaOCl or OCl-) is transformed into hypochlorous acid (HOCl) and the balance between the two is directly dependent on the pH, as this diagram shows:

r_wqb_chlorine_graph.gif


Hypochlorous acid (HOCl) is a powerful oxidiser, as its oxygen atom is easily lost. It is this oxidising action that allows it to kill bacteria, by entering the cell wall of the bacteria and destroying DNA. However, when it does lose this single oxygen atom, it leaves behind only a single hydrogen and chlorine atom, or HCl, which everyone knows is hydrochloric acid.

So, if one dilutes bleach with water 1:5 and ends up with a solution with a pH of (just a guess) 8, he would have a bleach solution that was 80% sodium hypochlorite, and 20% hypochlorous acid. As the hypochlorous acid deteriorates to form the stronger hypochloric acid, the pH of the solution is steadily lowered by the creation of HCL. Steadily lowering the pH to, let's say, 7, will now make hypochlorous acid the predominant factor in a 70/30% split, as seen above. Now, the greater volume of hypochlorous acid loses even more oxygen and causes even more HCl to form, lowering the pH further. At a point roughly between 4 and 5 pH, as seen in the diagram, free chlorine gas will begin to leave the solution.

This process can be retarded somewhat by keeping the stored solution refrigerated. It is also naturally slowed somewhat by the very low vapour pressure of hypochlorous acid, meaning that a large vat of diluted bleach only oxidises from the upper layer, although it will mix by itself over time.

The Chlorine Institute of America has very good literature on their website about the proper handling and storage of bleach. One of their articles deals with the proper method of diluting bleach with water. It involves the very careful addition of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) to diluted bleach to bring the pH back up over 12, and the use of a good pH tester to tell when this objective is reached.
 

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Thank you for that. It sounds interesting. I am not totally accepting your conclusion at this time. Part of the reasons are that I have read that more dilute chlorine bleach is more stable; however I have also read what seems to be the opposite of that. Also, I doubt that the pH of bleach diluted with 5 parts water would be as low as 11.86. I am OK with a lot of math, but following the calculated predictions of pH with mixing two things is something I can't seem to follow. I think this is a useful topic. Maybe I should be adding a bit of lye when I refill my solution tank every 33 days. I did a quick look at https://www.chlorineinstitute.org but I did not yet locate the document that you describe. Maybe it is a member's section.

I dilute my bleach solution with 14 parts water. It is not injected into my water as you are doing, but it is used during backwash of my iron+sulfur filter every 3 days. I wish I had a suitable pH paper handy to sample my solution with.

I guess I could try diluting a sample of my solution after 33 days and seeing how much free chlorine I measure with my high range test paper.

I do know that chlorine bleach is a much better killer of bacteria when you lower the pH. But I can see that is compatible with higher pH maintaining stability.
 
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SuperGreg

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This is the first I've heard of this, currently diluting 1 gal pool chlorine (10%) with 9 gal water to get a 1% solution. I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what is going to go wrong based on your description - are you saying the main issue is that the Chlorine will evaporate? In a closed 10 gallon container refilled monthly, what are the actual practical effects?
 

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Yes, lower concentrations of sodium hypochlorite are more stable than higher concentrations, but this does not mean the minimum pH of 11.86 must not be maintained; they are simply more volatile because of the higher concentration. Sodium hypochlorite is a very unstable product and there are several ways for it to deteriorate. For example, it is possible to change all of the sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl) in a solution to sodium chlorate (NaO3Cl) simply by pouring it into a pot and gently bringing it to a simmer on a stove top. Sodium hypochlorite stored in a room that is too warm will do the same thing over time.

https://www.chlorineinstitute.org/
 

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This is the first I've heard of this, currently diluting 1 gal pool chlorine (10%) with 9 gal water to get a 1% solution. I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what is going to go wrong based on your description - are you saying the main issue is that the Chlorine will evaporate? In a closed 10 gallon container refilled monthly, what are the actual practical effects?

https://www.chlorineinstitute.org/

These people will do a much better job of explaining good and bad practices involving chlorine bleach.

The simple fact of the matter is that diluting bleach with water lowers the pH of the bleach solution. You can test this yourself with an inexpensive Ph tester. As the diagram shows, after a certain pH is reached, the very unstable hypochlorous acid forms, and the lower the pH, the higher the ratio of hypochlorous acid to hypochlorite. Its instability is what makes it such a good disinfectant, and this is also why straight bleach out of the bottle is an extremely poor disinfectant. As any housewife knows, the true killing power of bleach is released by mixing it 10:1 with water, thus dramatically lowering its pH. If used right away, this diluted bleach is very effective. If stored for any length of time, the hypochlorous acid breaks down, and does so exponentially.
 

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After re-reading one of the posts, I should point out that adding sodium hydroxide to a bleach solution can produce volatile reactions, and is something that should not be approached without caution, proper direction and the appropriate PPE.

Also, investment in a good Ph tester is invaluable. One should never just "add a little" of anything, unless one is looking for an early grave.
 

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After re-reading one of the posts, I should point out that adding sodium hydroxide to a bleach solution can produce volatile reactions, and is something that should not be approached without caution, proper direction and the appropriate PPE.

Also, investment in a good Ph tester is invaluable. One should never just "add a little" of anything, unless one is looking for an early grave.
PPE? personal protective equipment?

I was not thinking of dumping a teaspoon of Draino in. I was thinking of a few crystals of lye, having done some calculation. I guess you are thinking to drop crystals and use a pH meter. Then remember how many crystals it took.

pH testers have a limited life, and need frequent calibration with calibration solutions. Some have replaceable probes, in which case the replacement probe probably costs as much as the cheaper pH meter with the non-replaceable probe. I think a narrow range test paper centered on maybe 12.5 would be good.
 

SuperGreg

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I did come across this: http://www.powellfab.com/technical_information/files/810.pdf

If the sodium hypochlorite will be diluted and stored after the consumer receives it, the pH must be higher than the 11.86 pH since dilution will decrease the pH of the solution. However, in practice this should never be a problem due to the amount of excess caustic in the sodium hypochlorite from the producer.

Does this apply to over the counter bleach solutions as well?
 

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I did come across this: http://www.powellfab.com/technical_information/files/810.pdf



Does this apply to over the counter bleach solutions as well?

Quite frankly, bleach is bleach. Only the concentration changes but they are all essentially sodium hypochlorite and water, with a little salt and sodium hydroxide.

I'm afraid the Chlorine Institute has changed their website extensively since the last time I visited it several years ago. and the article describing the proper procedure is no longer available. I imagine it can be looked for and purchased in their new bookstore.

While the site you quoted seems to have the mechanics of pH and sodium hypochlorite dilution well at hand, they seem to be purposely downplaying the fact that when a basic solution is diluted with water, be it bleach or any other basic solution, the pH automatically goes down. It is nonsensical to state otherwise, and quite deceptive, in my opinion.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-PH-M...889695?hash=item212a6fc89f:g:gzIAAOSwkWNZn~pT

The above link is to a pH tester sold on Ebay for CDN $27.49 (probably about US $20) with free shipping. I bought one of these very units several years ago only intending to use it a couple of times, but am still using it. It looks quite cheap but, if not roughly handled, seems to stand the test of time. It comes with solutions for re-calibrating it occasionally, and this only takes a few minutes.
 

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I should also add that the same rules apply to manufacturing calcium hypochlorite bleach by adding pellets or powder to water. Liquid calcium hypochlorite bleach, regardless of the concentration, has a pH of around 9. This is a good way to make bleach in small batches, if it is to be used immediately. Without adjusting the pH to over 11.86, though, it will suffer the same deterioration problems as diluted sodium hypochlorite bleach.

I should also point out that, when diluting sodium hypochlorite or mixing calcium hypochlorite, only clean, filtered and softened water should be used.
 

Reach4

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The above link is to a pH tester
Thanks. I just ordered a similar-looking meter. I also ordered a bottle of sodium hydroxide, food grade.

I fairly recently put in a soft water spigot next to my solution tank for for topping off with water after pouring the bleach. My motivation was to stop the accumulation of white precipitate that was forming on the bottom of my solution tank.
 
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Reach4

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While the site you quoted seems to have the mechanics of pH and sodium hypochlorite dilution well at hand, they seem to be purposely downplaying the fact that when a basic solution is diluted with water, be it bleach or any other basic solution, the pH automatically goes down. It is nonsensical to state otherwise, and quite deceptive, in my opinion.
I would certainly presume that the pH of a base goes down when diluted with water. I did not see anything that stated or implied otherwise. Were you referring to the second paragraph of section 3.2? I found that wording to be confusing. To me, section 3.2 seems to agree with what you are saying.
 
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