Well tank rusting from inside out. Need help finding a new tank.

[RichardH]

Hi everyone, our well tank appears to be rusting from inside out. We are proactively looking to replace the tank before it completely fails. The tank is about 1000 gallons and made of steel. The well system currently provides water for 4 different house holds. The system holds at 60 PSI and refills when below 40 PSI. We do not know much about the well system as we inherited it when we bought the house about 10 years ago. I have some questions for those that are knowledgeable about well systems. I have attached some pictures below and thank you in advance for the help.

1. Where would be the best place to find a new tank? We are located in Garden Grove, California.

2. Is there a different type of material tank that would last longer and not rust? Stainless steel, plastic?

3. Could we down size to a 500 Gallon tank or smaller instead? The Current tank size use to provide water to 10+ houses.

4. Is the tank repairable?

5. From the picture, how long do we likely have before the tank completely fails? Is it rusting from the outside or inside out? There are 3 rust spot that appears to be leaking water slowly.

 

[Valveman]

You are going to have a hard time believing this but, even with 4-10 houses you can replace that 1000 gallon pressure tank with a Cycle Stop Valve and a 20 gallon size pressure tank. If you have a 2HP or smaller pump the CSV and 20 gallon tank will do a better job, deliver strong constant pressure to the houses, and make the pump last much longer. A 20 gallon Amtrol tank like a Water Worker brand only cost about 150 bucks and is completely plastic or rubber lined on the inside, so no rusting. You are going to be blown away by the cost of a new 1000 gallon or even a 500 gallon tank. Call Bulldog or Quick tanks.

To switch to a diaphragm style tank you will need to plug the bleeder orifice that is about 5' down the well. But even with that the cost of a PK1ALT kit is only $392.00 and adding $150 for the 20 gallon tank makes it $542.00 total. Your pump man is not going to like the CSV as it cuts him out of thousands of dollars on a new tank and makes your pump last several times longer than he likes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[RichardH]

You are going to have a hard time believing this but, even with 4-10 houses you can replace that 1000 gallon pressure tank with a Cycle Stop Valve and a 20 gallon size pressure tank. If you have a 2HP or smaller pump the CSV and 20 gallon tank will do a better job, deliver strong constant pressure to the houses, and make the pump last much longer. A 20 gallon Amtrol tank like a Water Worker brand only cost about 150 bucks and is completely plastic or rubber lined on the inside, so no rusting. You are going to be blown away by the cost of a new 1000 gallon or even a 500 gallon tank. Call Bulldog or Quick tanks.

To switch to a diaphragm style tank you will need to plug the bleeder orifice that is about 5' down the well. But even with that the cost of a PK1ALT kit is only $392.00 and adding $150 for the 20 gallon tank makes it $542.00 total. Your pump man is not going to like the CSV as it cuts him out of thousands of dollars on a new tank and makes your pump last several times longer than he likes.

Thank you for the info. Our current pump motor is 10hp so it might not work with the CSV system.

 

[Valveman]

Thank you for the info. Our current pump motor is 10hp so it might not work with the CSV system.

Oh yes it will. It just takes a larger CSV. The 2" CSV model CSV3A2T will work from 5 GPM to 150 GPM and is adjustable from 15 to 150 PSI. But you would need an 86 gallon tank tank to go with that size valve and would work for many houses.

 

[Valveman]

Here is a picture of a 10,000 gallon tank I replaced with a Cycle Stop Valve and an 86 gallon size tank in 1994. Since then we have completed many thousands of these type systems. The CSV is not something new. Pump guys just try to keep it a secret for all the obvious reasons. Lol!

 

[RichardH]

Oh yes it will. It just takes a larger CSV. The 2" CSV model CSV3A2T will work from 5 GPM to 150 GPM and is adjustable from 15 to 150 PSI. But you would need an 86 gallon tank tank to go with that size valve and would work for many houses.

Hi Cary, base on the video for the CSV. It looks like the pump would cycle on longer and more frequent. For example, someone would showers for 15 mins, the pump would be running continuously for 15mins until the person was done showing. Then after that another member in the house showers for another 15 mins and then a 3rd person show for another 15 mins etc. The pump would have cycle on and off 3 times in between each shower and the pump would be running for 45 mins. Then the next house would take their shower and use the water for different tasks at a different time throughout the day and there would be more on and off cycling of the pump and run time. A traditional large well tank would take 2-3 min to fill and that amount would be enough for 3 showers and would only cycle on one time. My understanding may well be wrong. Please educate me.

 

[Valveman]

As I always say, the CSV is just a simple valve, but the explanation can be complicated. With the larger CSV3A2T there is a minimum flow rate of about 5 GPM built into the CSV. With a 40/60 pressure switch and an 86 gallon size tank, you have about 22 gallons to use before the pump comes on. With that size tank and and CSV the CSV setting will be about 55 PSI. With this setting your 100 GPM pump will fill the first 15 gallons in the tank in seconds. At 55 PSI the CSV will limit the tank fill to 5 GPM, taking about 60 seconds to finish filling the tank to 60 PSI, which shuts off the pump.

When running a 2.5 GPM standard shower, the 22 gallons in the tank will last about 10 minutes before the pump comes on. With the pump on the tank is quickly filled to 55 PSI, and the CSV starts limiting flow to 5 GPM. 2.5 GPM of this is going directly to the shower. The other 2.5 GPM goes into the pressure tank for 2 minutes when the tank reaches 60 PSI and the pump is shut off. The last 2-3 minutes of your 15 minute shower will again be supplied by the tank. This means the pump only ran for about 2-3 minutes while using a 2.5 GPM shower for 15 minutes.

The tank is still almost full and the same scenario will happen again if someone waits minutes or hours before taking a shower in another part of the house or a different house. However, people tend to do many things at the same time as their neighbors. With city and community water systems they have "peak" times when everyone is home and using water, and off peak times when everyone is at school, work, or other things. So you will find that if not at exactly the same time, at least within a few minutes, someone else will use water in a different house. Your 100 GPM pump can supply as many as 40 showers all at the same time if needed. If house use for 4 houses using 300 gallons per day each is all this system is supplying, the problem is the pump is 10 times larger than needed. A 1HP would be much better for that application.

However, there is usually irrigation, pools, ponds, etc. in a system like that, which is why the larger pump is needed. If the irrigation is already running or a pond is being filled, taking a shower or three at the same time won't effect the pump in the least. Without a CSV, even with a huge tank, the irrigation needs to be matched to the output of the pump or the pump will cycle on and off. With a 100 GPM pump every zone must be 100 GPM or the pump will cycle. With a CSV the irrigation system will have constant pressure and the zones can be set to match the irrigation needs from 5 GPM to 100 GPM and the pump will not cycle. Irrigation is always most efficient when using close to or max flow of the pump. But even with zones of 30-50 GPM the amps of the pump/motor will be reduced because of the CSV, instead of running at max amps. So, it doesn't cost much extra to irrigate with varied size zones compared to always having to irrigate at the pumps max flow rate.

There is no question using a 1000 gallon tank that holds 300 gallons will cause a 100 GPM pump to use less energy than when working with a CSV and 86 gallon tank. But even with worst case scenario of only needing 300 gallons per day for 4 houses, the CSV and an 86 gallon size tank is still hard to beat. I have done the math many times and come up with 30-70 years of energy savings needed to pay off the huge pressure tank.

You will like the pressure from the CSV much better. There is no maintenance needed with a CSV and diaphragm type tank. The CSV will make the pump and everything else last longer. That, on top of the 5-10K you will save not having to replace that 1000 gallon tank will save you lots of money now and in the future. This is why pump companies classify the CSV as a "disruptive" product, do not promote its use, and try their best to talk you out of it.