Well Storage Tank Replacement / Booster Pump / Cycle Stop?

[ddbuster]

Looking for some advise
Current storage tank needs to be replaced.
4 BR two story, water comes into house from basement.
Wife has also complained for years about low water pressure especially upstairs in the shower, also takes forever for hot water to make it up two floors
Have been thinking about increasing tank size from 24 gallon to 44 gallon after reviewing tank sizing charts (14 fixtures including 3 outdoor spigots)
Also have been looking at the cycle stop valve, and potentially putting a booster pump in to increase pressure.
To be honest, I'm just not sold on the tiny tank of the pside kick, Also wondering if I go to a jet pump booster, I see many with a small tank mounted directly to them.
Just trying to fix two separate problems here and wondering if any of the following would be a good solution:
Cycle Stop Valve feeding
Water Worker 44 Gallon Pre-Charged Tank feeding
Simer / Wayne / ??? jet pump to whole house.
or
Water Worker 44 Gallon Pre-Charged Tank feeding
pside kick feeding
jet pump

 

[Cacher_Chick]

A better solution would be to have a well pump providing the desired volume of water required, instead of trying to patch the problem with a booster pump. The tank is only there to stop the pump from cycling excessively. The pump is what makes both the pressure and the volume. The first concern is whether the well has the size and capacity to provide what you want.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[PumpMd]

What size Submersible pump do you have HP? GPM?
How much water does your well produce "GPM"?

Pressure tanks are sized by what gpm flow is going into the pressure tank and what pressure settings your working at, so you will have at lest 1min on and 1min off for proper cooling on a 4" motor.

For every 2.31' you have in elevation "Rise" is a 1psi "loss". How much height do you have from your supply pipe in the basement to your shower head? Most people will do their setup on ground level because of elevation "Rise"

What are your pressure settings now? 20-40, 30-50, 40-60
You will need a bigger pressure tank, so you can increase your pressure settings on your pressure switch and still have your proper cooling for the 4" motor. Anything over 50-70psi will need a heavy duty pressure switch.

Is your submersible pump capable of doing this? will the submersible pump struggle to build pressure for your outside watering needs from your "depth" to your static water level.

 

[ddbuster]

A better solution would be to have a well pump providing the desired volume of water required, instead of trying to patch the problem with a booster pump. The tank is only there to stop the pump from cycling excessively. The pump is what makes both the pressure and the volume. The first concern is whether the well has the size and capacity to provide what you want.

I have no idea.
Had it serviced once about 10 years ago. but no idea as to brand, size, capacity.....
I do know I have a pressure tank with a bladder problem.

 

[ddbuster]

What size Submersible pump do you have HP? GPM?
How much water does your well produce "GPM"?

Pressure tanks are sized by what gpm flow is going into the pressure tank and what pressure settings your working at, so you will have at lest 1min on and 1min off for proper cooling on a 4" motor.

For every 2.31' you have in elevation "Rise" is a 1psi "loss". How much height do you have from your supply pipe in the basement to your shower head? Most people will do their setup on ground level because of elevation "Rise"

What are your pressure settings now? 20-40, 30-50, 40-60
You will need a bigger pressure tank, so you can increase your pressure settings on your pressure switch and still have your proper cooling for the 4" motor. Anything over 50-70psi will need a heavy duty pressure switch.

Is your submersible pump capable of doing this? will the submersible pump struggle to build pressure for your outside watering needs from your "depth" to your static water level.

Pressure switch is currently 30-50, was planning on going to a 40/60
Supply pipe comes in 1 ft off of the basement floor, so a rough guess is about a 24' rise to the shower head +/- a foot.
Again, I have no idea what kind of pump I have....

 

[PumpMd]

You would roughly have a 10-11psi loss

When pressure gets to 30psi, you only have 19-20psi going to your shower head on use.

edit: That's not counting elbows,tees, and friction loss on pipe size in the run.

 

[PumpMd]

Again, I have no idea what kind of pump I have....

Take a picture of your setup in the basement and upload it on this thread.

Jet pumps are noisey, so I'm sure you would know if you had one those in your basement.

 

[ddbuster]

no pump in basement, submersible well pump in yard.
With it being 6 below here in Chicago, not going to check any time soon

 

[Reach4]

Pressure switch is currently 30-50, was planning on going to a 40/60

You may be able to adjust your current pressure switch upward.

To raise or lower the cut-in and cut-out settings while keeping the
differential between those two settings constant, adjust the range
nut. The range nut is the 3/8-inch nut that adjusts the larger of
the two springs in Models FSG, FYG, FRG, and Type G Pumptrol
switches.
Turn the range nut clockwise to increase the cut-in pressure and
counter-clockwise to lower the cut-in pressure. Three and a half
revolutions of the range nut will change both the cut-in and
cut-out settings by approximately 10 psi.​

Maybe go to 45/65 if it goes there. Then set the precharge on the pressure tank to 2 PSI below the cut-in pressure.

Watch the pressure gauge and make sure the pressure hits the cut-off pressure without leveling off. You want to make sure the pump will reach cut-off pressure.

 

[PumpMd]

I forgot to ask you another question. Do you have a whole house water filter or water treatment devices installed down that basement as well?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I have no idea.
Had it serviced once about 10 years ago. but no idea as to brand, size, capacity.....
I do know I have a pressure tank with a bladder problem.

If you are capable, change the tank if yours is shot, but do not expect that to fix a lack of pressure or volume, because that is dependent on the pump.

 

[Valveman]

You have low pressure because you are using a 30/50 switch setting. As has been explained that means at times you are getting less than 20 PSI to the shower upstairs. A submersible pump should be able to produce the pressure you need. I have mine set at 50/70. That way upstairs I get a minimum of 40 PSI. AND because I only have a 10 gallon size tank with my CSV, the pressure doesn't stay down at 40 very long before the pump starts and I start seeing a constant 50 PSI upstairs, because I have a CSV holding a constant 60 PSI downstairs.

Nothing wrong with using a larger tank with a CSV. A 44 gallon size tank holds about 12 gallons of water. So with a 3 GPM shower going the pressure will drop from 70 to 50 for 4 minutes. (Remember that is 40 PSI upstairs). As soon as the pump comes on the pressure will quickly increase to a constant 60 PSI downstairs, which is a constant 50 PSI upstairs. That is so much stronger pressure than what you have now, you probably will no longer even need soap in the shower. The larger the tank, the longer you are at low pressure before the pump starts. But if you don't mind waiting for 4-5 minutes to start seeing strong constant pressure, there is nothing wrong with the 44 gallon size tank.

I am currently doing a cycles per day test on a customers house with CSV and different tank sizes. For house use only he is getting an average of 31 cycles per day with a 4.5 gallon size tank and 21 cycles per day with a 10 gallon size tank. Without a CSV and having a 44 gallon size tank he would be getting about 15 cycles per day. Not enough difference to justify the extra expense for the larger tank, or to have to live with low pressure for the first 4-5 minutes of each use.

Tighten the big screw in your pressure switch until you get it working between about 50 and 70. If the pump will easily build to 70 to shut off, then put about 45 PSI air in the tank. That will give you varying 40 to 60 upstairs, then you can just imagine how strong it would be if it never went back down to 40 and just stayed at a constant 50 for as long as you want to shower, which is what happens after adding a CSV.