Well Pump Switch - basic operation principles

[bluinc]

Hey guys,
Clearly I need teaching on the basic operation principles of a Well Pump Switch.

I just bought this house yesterday (a repo). I removed this very old water conditioner to get at alot of mold growing in the corner of the watercloset pictured below. Moldy drywall and furring strips are now gone. Now I gotta get basic water to the house so I can start finding and repairing plumbing leaks (for another post, I am sure) which the house is full of.

When i attached one of those standard black 6' hoses (female fitting's [w/rubber o-ring gasket] on each end, black 3/4" hose in between) between this well water inlet and pump switch pictured below and a shark fitting attached to my copper pipe that routes water to the rest of the house - i had two major problems:

I flipped the switch to the well pump ON (turned off previously to remove the water conditioner) water was spraying out of each end of the washer hose. I quickly turned the pump off, wrenched the hose ends as tight as I could get it using claw wrenches - turned the pump back on, less leaks, but now the pump switch was cycling ."click" "click" "click". Afraid I was burning out the switch, I turned the pump back off and quit to come to you guys for counsel.

Keep in mind, there is a cutoff valve that i had in the off position AFTER the washer hose connection so the pump was pushing water against an off valve with only a little water flow due to the leaks.

My assumption was that when a well pump encounters full resistance, that is, (pump power switched ON but main water valve cut OFF) that the pump will just shut off as a normal operation. IS THIS NOT THE CASE?

What do I do. i.e.
1) what is the best temporary way to get water from the well water inlet pictured below and my copper line going into the house that doesnt leak, isnt permanent (I intend to install an water conditioner later) and doesnt cost alot.
2) is the clicking just due to the switch being confused by my partially off water line, or is there some feedback system that I inadvertantly removed that tells the pump to turn off.

Can someone please help this clueless noob?

 

[Teets]

You need a pressure tank with an air charge in it for the pump to pump against. What I see there is the well pump pressurizing the piping from the well only. You need to get a tank. Well pumps can build tremendous pressure quickly, and if you continue with this setup you will kill the well pump and possibly burst the piping leading to it.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bluinc]

That tank you speak of was one of the things I removed as well. Its in good enough shape that I can put it back - but what I still dont understand is, what tells the pump to cut off? When the pressure tank is full, and pushes back against the pump doesnt the switch kick in and shut the pump off. What is the difference? Either way, the pump is cutting off when it feels full resistance whether from a cut off valve or a full pressure tank.

Either way, I am reconnecting the tank tomorrow. So - that should do it eh?

Another mystery, while we are at it is this:
I looked at new pump switches at home depot just to try and learn the system, and some switches had this little nipple on the bottom that fed a thin tube back to the pump (and some did not). Mine doesnt have this feedback nipple or tube that I can see. What is that thing for?

 

[Teets]

Without the tank, the pump builds pressure too quickly in the piping system and as the pressure inside the pipes levels off the pressure drops enough that the switch tells the pump to turn on again to build the pressure in piping to the cut-off level. This is what we call pressure switch chatter and often occurs with a waterlogged tank. When you re-install tank, make sure it has an air-charge of at least 28 psi in it while empty. As for the tubing, it is generally used for a jet pump system, this tubing distributes the pressure from the pump to the switch and tells the pump when to turn on and off.

 

[bluinc]

Safe to assume then that I don't have this jet type pump since the switch has no nipple and tubing coming out of it?

Thanks Teets. Great answers. You just saved me from frying my well pump and switch.

28 psi eh? I assume I can just check this with a standard tire gauge. And if it needs filling, a bike tire pump will work? I assume the black beveled plastic cap on the tank's top is the cover for this air inlet valve? I havent peeked under there yet. (cant get back to the house for another 7 hours)

So what is my best option for a temporary connection betwixt the cut off copper tube going into the house and the outlet port of the pressure tank once installed? Seems like everything I tried from home depot leaked at the gaskets no matter how hard I wrenched it down - I guess they were not rated for this high a pressure?

I was thinking of buying 4 feet of that heavy 1" (inner diameter) braided black heater hose that Home Depot sells and just use metal screw clamps, but that hose is like 5 bucks a foot! You all know of better solution? Would It be just as well to just go ahead and do it in CPVC then just saw it off once I get ready to install the treatment system? Seems like a waste.

Pictured below is my old tank. Ugly, init.

Anyone venture a guess of what that black hose with the clamps on it is called and where I could maybe get some? I couldn't find any like this at home depot. It looks thinner that that expensive 'by-the-foot' heater hose they had.

 

[Gary Slusser]

The tank T and such is NPT (national pipe thread) and hose is not, hose uses the rubber washer/gasket to seal.

Put the tank back like it was and if you don't have enough PE pipe, the black pipe, use SCH 40 pvc like what I think the male adapter is in the tank T.

When you install the softener, you simply cut out 4-6" of the line past the pressure tank and run an inlet and outlet line to/from each side of the opening to the softener. You can afford a half foot of PVC.

 

[Teets]

The black hose with the clamps is called polyethylene pipe sometimes referred to as poly pipe, if you get this pipe get it rated for 160psi, which is most common. You can get the pipe, fittings, and clamps at most plumbing supply houses. In my area most people use this piping to connect to the inlet side of the pressure tank and copper piping to go from the outlet side to the house plumbing. Due to the cost of copper piping I'm seeing a lot of houses being converted to the cheaper pex plastic piping for the house plumbing. You can use any kind of piping you want just make sure you get a proper adapter to go from whatever type of piping you decide to use to adapt to the current copper house plumbing.

 

[bluinc]

Thanks Gary! Thanks Teets!

Well, before I read your last two posts, I got this project finished (maybe - you tell me). What I ended up doing was taking what looks like rubber radiator hose I got from home depot (3/4" inner diameter) heating it with a blow torch thus making it soft enough to push onto the existing 1" well water inlet tube then clamping em down with those clamps in the pics. This got me connected to the 1" bladder tank T pipe. Out of the bladder tank I re-used the existing grey 3/4" plastic fittings, ran some new 3/4" CPVC line and quick disconnect elbows to get to the copper, then shark bit the link between the copper and cpvc. Pressured the line...and...no explosion, not even any leaks! Amazing. Best part is - its all quick disconnect, so when I get my water conditioner in, I can disassemble and re-use as necessary. Almost like playing with tinker toys.

Now after reading your last two posts, looks like that radiator hose bit was rather unconventional eh? Do I need to go back and use the black pvc you two recommended instead? Is that stuff not potable, or not rated high enough pressure maybe? It isnt actually radiator hose. It just feels like it. I think it is made for washing machines or something like that.

By the way - no leaks yet that I could find in the house. I havent tried the hot water side yet though. That may be were all my leaks are.

 

[Gary Slusser]

No leaks and if the stuff doesn't bulge, I guess you're good. But I would use sch 40 PVC instead of the hose, especially if that stuff isn't rated NSF standard 61 for potable water use. I'd suggest PE pipe but you'd have to buy a 50 or 100' roll.