?well pump or control box? No running water is a very bad thing

[Delaware IT]

bah.. humbug..

I was in the shower tonight and (thankfully when I was almost done rinsing)
my water died..

the control box tries to send power (hums for a few seconds the stops),
the pressure regulator is brand new (that went a few months ago)..
so Im left believing its the pump.. right?

its a Ground FOS 3/4 hp circa 2003.

:-[ Im a computer tech (former construction and electrical background)
so I feel I would be able to switch the pump out myself.. I dont think its
more than 100-150 deep (with only 3/4hp).

so, my main question is, does the humming control box mean it is the bad
part or does that mean its just doing its thing sending the 220 out to the pump?

I would love to hear any thoughts and opinions on this.. 8-D

Thank you,

 

[Gary Slusser]

Here's how to check the control box.

http://www.franklin-electric.com/business/WaterSystems/service/AIM/page-48.aspx

Here's how to check the wiring to the pump and the motor windings, for shorts and to ground, and amps if you have an amp gauge etc..

http://www.franklin-electric.com/business/WaterSystems/service/AIM/page-13.aspx

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Waterwelldude]

It could be just a bad capacitor.
If you are sure the pump control box is getting the 220v.
Check the apms when the pump tries to run, if its under 30amps. I would try changing the capacitor.
If its over 30, it doesnt look good for the pump.

Just a thought

Travis

 

[Delaware IT]

I didnt even think that the humming could be a bad cap..

awww man.. I really hope it is.. its too cold outside to be fishing in my well..

I have to go buy a voltage meter to test it..
mine seems to have grown legs and ran to the neighbors house..

Thanx guys.. I really appreciate it..

 

[Delaware IT]

the control box box seems to be testing ok.. :-[

guess I get to go well fishing ........

anybody feel like coming to delaware and helping..

Ill fix all your computers, and make you a website.. 8-D

 

[Gary Slusser]

You can do all the electrical checks on the pump at the control box, just remove the power cable from the terminals and check to your heart's content right there. Or do it at the well on the cable going down to the pump by disconnecting the wire nuts. Check them and the cable for corrosion while you're there. Checking at the box checks the wire nut connections.

Of course you do all that with the power off.

 

[Delaware IT]

this just keeps getting better and better/...

--full res pics-- slow connection warning..
http://2.0delaware.com/11.JPG
http://2.0delaware.com/22.JPG

so, apparently, this is the 4 wire version.. but the 4th wire..
is connected to nothing.. there was no vapor barrier.. (guess that why
there is frost going down the length of the pipe.. :-(

so.. since that 4th wire isnt connected to anything..
can I use the 3wire? its a few bux cheaper.. lolol

 

[Masterpumpman]

The green wire is a ground wire to the pump motor casing. A three wire control box should work just as well.
It's only a safety feature that you may or may not want to run the green wire to a ground screw on the control box case. It's not legal in most states but it works.

I'm sure that you know how to use an Ohm meter. Test for a short from each of the three wires (yellow,black and red) to ground. No need to check the green wire for a short to ground because it is ground.

 

[Delaware IT]

This is why I love the internet..

you guys are the best.. 8-D

Im 90% sure that it is the pump its-self..
but, I called a local well guy and its $65 for the diagnostics..
I figure its worth the 65 for the piece of mind before dropping 400 on the
new pump only to find out that isnt the issue..

if it is the pump I fell confident I can switch it out myself..
especially considering the discharge flex pipe is only 4-5 feet underground.

and by looking at his website, I might be able to work out a barter to rebuild his.. 8-D

hey, a guy can dream cant he..

I will keep you updated..

 

[Gary Slusser]

Four wires means you have a 3 wire pump motor. That requires the control box. A 2 wire pump has 3 wires and no control box.

Red is Start, black and yellow are 120 each and green is ground. Older 2 wire pumps had no ground wire on the pump so it wasn't needed or able to be connected to the motor.

In the second picture it looks like they have the red, black and yellow all tied together in the smaller wire nut... the only other nut has one green in it. I don't see how that worked unless they don't match colors. I think I see a black that is loose, that should stop the pump from running. Maybe that is just insulation.

 

[Delaware IT]

the red, black, yellow are in their own wire nut.
I removed them and re-nutted them and still no water..

my local well guy stood me up.. so to sHELL with him.. 8-D
Im going to bite the bullet and buy the pump.. if it still turns out to
be the control box.. at least Ill have a nice new pump and wont have to
worry about it dying next year..


My main fear is when I remove the pitless that it falls down into oblivion

<--bows head and prays

one more question though.. the aqua/blue'ish piece of plastic that looks like
its covering the top of the adapter (in the first pic)
how am I supposed to get that off..


damm.. at this point I think I would give my left pinky for an above ground pump..

 

[Gary Slusser]

Did you do the electrical checks in the links I posted?

The way the pump was wired allowed it to work fro years right, so it must have been wired right. Or it wasn't with that wire nut and al three wires in it but, if they were taped individually and then the wire nut was out on, then maybe something shorted.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Do realize that the weight of 100 feet of water-filled galvanized drop pipe with a 3/4 hp pump will be over 300 lbs.

I don't recommend trying to pull this yourself until you know for sure how deep it is and you have a solid plan for doing such a lift.

If you drop it or it breaks off and falls, you could end up needing a new well.

 

[hj]

pump

I am not sure what kind of pipe you have because the pictures are kind of vague about that. BUT, if it is galvanized, you will have to unscrew each 21' section, so you will have to use two hands to support the riser, while using two hands on the wrenches to unscrew them. Alternately, you can use a clamp to hold the pipe in place while you do it, but then you need two hands to hold the pipe, while using two to position and tighten the clamp. One person does not have enough hands to do it, even if he is strong enough to lift it by himself.

 

[Delaware IT]

WOOOOOHOOOOOOO..

running water is a fantastic thing.. 8-D

guys, I want to thank you for all your help..

I found a guy who used to do this and he had the tool and offered to help.

and you are right.. it is a two man job to yank that damm thing.. (3 would have been better).
after pulling that 130ft monster out the wire looked horrible... and the pump looked like it was
leaking rust from the inside. I already bought the pump so I was set on changing it, but she
needed new wires, we changed the wires and the pump and I can take a shower in my house now.


You guys are the absolute best.. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.. We totally nailed it that the control box wasnt the issue.
I dont know what people did before Al Gore invented the internet..

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Glad to hear things worked out for you.

I'd like more details on how you went about the job- tools & techniques? Iron pipe or plastic? Method of pulling? Any problems getting the pitless off & on?

 

[JoshRountree]

Let's say I have a 1/2 HP pump with black poly drop pipe, what's the suggested length that is possible for someone to lift out by their self. At what length should you get a pump puller?

 

[NHmaster]

Depends on how often you go to the gym and how much you can lift.

 

[Gary Slusser]

No gym, if you have made up something to hold it so you can rest, I'd say like 150' but then it depends too on the size of the pump, more gpm and hp weighs more.

 

[Delaware IT]

Do realize that the weight of 100 feet of water-filled galvanized drop pipe with a 3/4 hp pump will be over 300 lbs.

I don't recommend trying to pull this yourself until you know for sure how deep it is and you have a solid plan for doing such a lift.

If you drop it or it breaks off and falls, you could end up needing a new well.

Like CC said.. it is NOT a 1 person job.. even though 1 could lift it out by
themselves fairly easily.. the problem comes when you need to wrangle
the 100-150 of 'relatively stiff' pipe and wire..

Offer your neighbor beer and BBQ for for a little help...