Well Pump not Pumping, Need Assistance with Pump Selection

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Ed Rucker

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My 60-year-old well with a 30-year-old well pump slowly dwindled to no water being pumped a week ago. I've only owned the property for 20 years, so I assume the well and the pump's age are fairly accurate estimates based on word-of-mouth information from the previous owners. The local well companies are all backed up for months so I decided to pull the pump myself.

225 feet of 1 1/4 galvanized pipe later I found a Grundfos 10S07-12 pump and Franklin 2145079001 3/4 horse motor. These are/were controlled by a Red Jacket 3/4 horse controller.

The total well depth and static water depth were determined using the string with weight or float and came out to be 238 feet to water and 287 feet total depth. I know there is a discrepancy between the down-pipe length and the measured static water level. I can only guess that the monofilament line used stretched. I will remeasure tomorrow when I get a different type of string.

The current plan is to place a new 1hp pump 10 feet above the well bottom. Can someone please give recommendations for a Grundfos pump and Franklin motor sized for this application?

Additionally, the plan is to replace the steel down-pipe with 1 1/4 inch layflat hose. Are there any issues with this? Are there preferred brands?

I'm sure many more questions will arise as the project progresses. Thanks to all for your input
 

Reach4

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Layflat is not common for this, but there was a dealer who offered something along those lines in some posts. I assumed their pipe was not standard layflat, but I don't know.. SIDR polyethylene pipe is common for those who don't run PVC drop pipe.

Why would you want to go 1 HP? Not outlandish, by any means. Was 3/4 HP giving plenty of water when you first moved in? Are you thinking the water level has dropped since you first move in?

If you want a Franklin motor with a Grundfos wet end, you will get them separately, which may be what you have in mind.

What diameter is your well?
 

Ed Rucker

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Layflat is not common for this, but there was a dealer who offered something along those lines in some posts. I assumed their pipe was not standard layflat, but I don't know.. SIDR polyethylene pipe is common for those who don't run PVC drop pipe.

Why would you want to go 1 HP? Not outlandish, by any means. Was 3/4 HP giving plenty of water when you first moved in? Are you thinking the water level has dropped since you first move in?

If you want a Franklin motor with a Grundfos wet end, you will get them separately, which may be what you have in mind.

What diameter is your well?
The well casing is 5 inch steel.
Yes, the water level has dropped nearly 60 feet since the current pump was installed 30 years ago. I can see this by discoloration on the galvanized down pipe. Looking back, the flow rate and pressure have been slowly diminishing over the last 20 years. According to publications from the State of Texas, the Carrizo-Wilcox Aquifer where I believe I draw water from has had dropping levels that most likely account for this 60 foot drop.
 

Reach4

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It is best to put a flow inducer around the pump. 5 inch steel gives enough room.

The newer Franklin motors are said to not be as great as the old ones.

For a house, I would run 1 inch drop pipe, despite the 10 gpm pump having a 1.25 inch thread. SIDR pipe is bigger than the nominal size by a bit. But 1-1/4 works too, of course. Others may suggest the bigger pipe. SIDR has a standard inside dimension, so it fits on barbs. If you get higher pressure pipe, it will have a bigger OD.
 

Ed Rucker

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A flow inducer seems like a really good idea.

Are there any motors as good as the old ones? Are the current Grundfos motors as good as others?

I haven't made up my mind but I'm really interested in the lay-flat well hose. There are several brands, some with a 50 year warranty. This kind of sold me:
As well as various videos showing how easy it is to work with:
If there is something wrong here I need to know. What's that saying about if it's too good to be true? :))

Is there any advantage of 1 inch over 1.25 besides price? I assume friction loss at 5 or 10 GPM isn't an issue over 250 feet?

Back to Grundfos pumps, I see a few 1 HP SP models that would seem to fit my needs. I guess I need to do a better evaluation of my actual head pressure. Can you give me any insight into why the P2 HP is always higher than the recommended HP?
 

Ed Rucker

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I've roughly calculated that I have 400 feet of head and come up with these pumps:

7S10-19 Product No. 31545195
5S10-22 Product No. 81545225

I intend to run this with a CSV set at 40 PSI on my current 119-gallon galvanized (size is a guestimate) tank with a 40 to 60 PSI pressure switch.

Any thoughts on this are appreciated
 

Reach4

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Is the layflat, and its connections, speced to carry that tension for years?

On CSV, there is a max pressure for (Input-Output). Assume the well water is as high as it gets. Assume 1 gpm of flow.

Whichever you do, be sure that the wire has enough slack to account for potential stretching and thermal expansion.
 

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That is not what is normally called lay flat. That is more like fire hose and will work with some really high pressures if needed. I was using that as a bladder in an in the well tank and was amazed at the pressure limits.

You are right that you need a larger pump for the deeper water level. The 7S10-19 will have 126 PSI back pressure on the CSV and 230 PSI max at the bottom of the well pipe. The 5S10-22 would have 170 PSI back pressure on the CSV and 272 PSI max on the pipe at the bottom of the well. I would use the 7S10-19.
 

Ed Rucker

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Thanks, very helpful. Lay-flat may not be the proper name. Flexible well hose might be more accurate although they seem to be used somewhat interchangeably. Yes it does have some stretch and there are instructions on allowing the proper slack in the wiring to allow for that. I'll verify the expected life. It has apparently been approved by Texas for use as well downpipe. I'll verify that also

7S10-19 it is then.

Two more questions please...

1) Given that the water table has dropped 2 feet a year over the last 30 years I would like to place the pump as close to the bottom as practical in order to maximize well life. Is 5 feet from the bottom too close? If so, what is the recommended minimum?

2) My well top is even with the ground. I want to raise it a foot. five inch Sch 40 PVC seems hard to come by but 5 inch sch 40 PVC rigid conduit seems to be readily available with a bell end. Can I use that to raise the well top?
 

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5" PVC casing is very common. Try one of the drilling supply houses. I didn't even know they made 5" conduit. I don't know if that is the same fit or would work. I would not be worried about the potable water rating for that though.

You can set the pump a foot off bottom, but a shroud or flow sleeve is highly recommended if you set anywhere below the screen or perf.
 

Ed Rucker

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I don't know where the Screen or Perf is. I assumed it was at the bottom. Is that something I need to verify for pump placement. I'm guessing that it may not be very helpful to place pump below that.
 

Reach4

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1) Given that the water table has dropped 2 feet a year over the last 30 years I would like to place the pump as close to the bottom as practical in order to maximize well life. Is 5 feet from the bottom too close? If so, what is the recommended minimum?

2) My well top is even with the ground. I want to raise it a foot. five inch Sch 40 PVC seems hard to come by but 5 inch sch 40 PVC rigid conduit seems to be readily available with a bell end. Can I use that to raise the well top?
For PVC, the norm is schedule 80 PVC with threaded couplings. For wells, that commonly comes in 20 ft lengths.

For DIY, SIDR polyethylene is common. One inch in PVC or polyethylene is big enough, tho you would have to adapt at the pump.

A 7 gpm pump would come with a 1 inch connection normally.

The reason to not put the pump too close to the bottom is sediment.

There
 

Ed Rucker

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I do understand the reason for not placing too close to the bottom. What I'm not clear on is what is an acceptable distance.
 

Ed Rucker

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Here's something I need clarification on. According to the Grundfos installation manual:

A check valve should always be installed at the surface of the well and one
at a maximum of 25 feet above static water level. In addition, for installations deeper than
200 feet, check valves should be installed at no more than 200 foot intervals.


This seems to contradict common knowledge I've found on check valves. Can someone give me some insight on how many check valves I really need?
 

Reach4

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It's a shame they print that. You know the arguments against that.
 

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Here's something I need clarification on. According to the Grundfos installation manual:

A check valve should always be installed at the surface of the well and one
at a maximum of 25 feet above static water level. In addition, for installations deeper than
200 feet, check valves should be installed at no more than 200 foot intervals.


This seems to contradict common knowledge I've found on check valves. Can someone give me some insight on how many check valves I really need?
Pump manufacturers want to make sure you don't let the pump spin backwards. They would prefer you put in a hundred check valves to make sure one of them works and that doesn't happen. However, they are only looking at it from the standpoint of what they think will keep them from having to warranty the pump, and not what is best for the system. Although, the crash of water between multiple check valves can send a shock wave all the way down to the bottom and shatter a thrust bearing in the motor, so it still doesn't make any sense.

In most states a check valve above ground is illegal as it can cause a vacuum in the underground line and draw in contamination. In states where it is not illegal they are as clueless as the Grundfos engineer who recommended more than one check valve. No matter how big the pump or how deep is is set you only want one check valve right on the pump. Adding another even 20' above or anywhere will cause problems.
 
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