Well pump decided to quit today

[Reach4]

This hole would have been placed when using a galvanized/ "conventional" (but less common than precharged today) pressure tank, rather than a precharged pressure tank.

Do you have a precharged pressure tank? If so, there may be more to act on that plugging that hole.

If you do have a galvanized pressure tank, we can discuss that too.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

This hole would have been placed when using a galvanized/ "conventional" (but less common than precharged today) pressure tank, rather than a precharged pressure tank.

Do you have a precharged pressure tank? If so, there may be more to act on that plugging that hole.

If you do have a galvanized pressure tank, we can discuss that too.

Many years ago we had a galvanized tank.

We now have a pressurized tank.

I was ready to replace the pipe with 1.25" anyway -- will that do the trick?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Many years ago we had a galvanized tank.

We now have a pressurized tank.

I was ready to replace the pipe with 1.25" anyway -- will that do the trick?

Yes. But 1 inch is probably fine. 1 inch SIDR pipe is larger ID than some 1-inch pipe. The pump will have a 1-1/4 thread on the top of it. You may want to add a check valve right above the pump for redundancy, but do not use an above-water check valve.

Also, at the pressure tank, you want to remove/disable the check valve at the pressure tank, and remove or block the snifter valve. You can post a photo that shows the input to the pressure tank and a few feet of pipe from the well, if that does not tell you the whole story.

You could consider an above-ground pitless adapter. That could simplify lifting and dropping your pump. Or better yet, get a pitless installed below the frost line, and get your casing extended by welding. That way if the building heat fails, your well pipes don't freeze. Plus a small flood does not contaminate your well.

When you hang your drop pipe, you could use a long barb that accepts 3 worm-gear hose clamps, rather than the two that fits on the regular barbs. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Water-S...Long-Male-Insert-Adapter-XLMA9125NL/203989642 Your stuff is not that heavy, so regular is probably fine.

Use no galvanized fittings or pipe.

How hard was it to pull your pump? 1.25 full of water will weigh more.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

A local guy said I really should hire a well guy to come and figure out my well's capacity before selecting a pump size. I just need to get this done.

Pulling the pump wasn't too bad at all. No hoist or machinery -- just a couple of strong guys.

One local company sells Sta-Rite pumps and the other local company sells Franklin (and said their most commonly sold pump is a 3/4hp/7gpm; and that they've never sold an 18 or 20gpm pump).

How bad of a mistake could I make with one of these brands in a 1hp/8-10gpm pump?

 

[Joseph Skoler]

I found this fabulous tutorial:

http://www.raincollectionsupplies.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/tdh explanation.pdf

Looks to me that I have about 270' of total head.

According to that, if I wanted 9gpm, I could use either a Goulds 10GS05 or 13GS10.

Does it look like I got this right?

 

[Reach4]

How bad of a mistake could I make with one of these brands in a 1hp/8-10gpm pump?

1 hp 10 gpm pump would be fine. Look back at post #17.


Where ya going to find an 8? Anyway, if you find them, I think 8 gpm 1 hp would not be a very good match. 8 gpm 3/4 hp would be good.

A local guy said I really should hire a well guy to come and figure out my well's capacity before selecting a pump size. I just need to get this done.

You might find out what it would run to get your steel casing extended and get a pitless adapter.

I am guessing $1000, but that obviously could vary. I am not a pro.

, I could use either a Goulds 10GS05 or 13GS10.

10GS05 I think is closer to the edge than I would want. But 10GS07 looks good.
Don't get too hung up on the gpm at the point that the well is ready to go dry. If the flow slows as you approach running dry, a reduced flow seems advantageous to me. But you want the pump to be able to shut off.

For most loads, if running 40/60 with a 50 psi setting on your CSV, if you have plenty of gpm at 50 psi and closer to normal level for the well, that's good. There is some drop for the CSV, but not a lot.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

1 hp 10 gpm pump would be fine. Look back at post #17.


Where ya going to find an 8? Anyway, if you find them, I think 8 gpm 1 hp would not be a very good match. 8 gpm 3/4 hp would be good.


You might find out what it would run to get your steel casing extended and get a pitless adapter.

I am guessing $1000, but that obviously could vary. I am not a pro.

10GS05 I think is closer to the edge than I would want. But 10GS07 looks good.
Don't get too hung up on the gpm at the point that the well is ready to go dry. If the flow slows as you approach running dry, a reduced flow seems advantageous to me. But you want the pump to be able to shut off.

For most loads, if running 40/60 with a 50 psi setting on your CSV, if you have plenty of gpm at 50 psi and closer to normal level for the well, that's good. There is some drop for the CSV, but not a lot.

I wish I understood why a hypothetical 8gpm-1hp would not be good but an 8gpm-3/4hp would be.

If I'm researching correctly, the 10GS07 is a 3/4hp pump.

My local dealer sells Franklin pumps.

Below is a chart of the Franklin 10gpm pumps. Does it look like this the 1hp or 3/4hp would be better (I don't mind spending a few extra bucks)?

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Or the 7gpm version:

 

[Reach4]

I wish I understood why a hypothetical 8gpm-1hp would not be good but an 8gpm-3/4hp would be.

8gpm-1hp would certainly not be as bad as 5gpm-1hp. Pump would be operating off the right side of the graph too often. 8gpm-3/4hp would stay in the efficient area more.

My own thoughts:

Does the pump deliver at least 2 gpm at 270 ft of head so the pump can shut off if the well is ready to run out of water, but can still fill a toilet tank or give you a glass of water?

Does the pump work a lot in the shaded part of the graph during long use activities? That's good.

Does the pump produce sufficient gpm at the 35 (I thought about saying 30 or 40) for your big longer use activities? I was thinking about something like irrigation, or backwashing a big iron filter. If the pump only produces 30 psi when regenerating that big iron filter, that is enough for that job. Nothing drastic happens if the pressure drops to 35 during irrigation, even if the cut-in is 40 or 45.

Does it mostly avoid > 10.5 for the 7 gpm pump and maybe 14.5 for the 10 gpm pump? Max water height and cut-in pressure will affect this. If that is a problem, you can add a flow regulating valve.

You should determine your static level. Most use something like a fishing bobber on strong fishing line. Don't leave anything in the well, so be sure the line is strong and the connection to the bobber is secure. Many pros use sonic depth sounders that send a sound (maybe ultrasonic) down and time how long it takes to bounce off of the water surface and return.

 

[Valveman]

The 13GS10 should cost less and have less back pressure. The CSV will turn the 13 GPM pump into any size pump you need down to 1 GPM. Whatever water you turn on will be the rate that the CSV lets the pump produce. When you are using 8 GPM, the CSV turns it into an 8 GPM pump.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

I just realized I might have other data that is useful. I've had a Flume water meter monitor on the well. Here are my actual usage graphs.

Even on a day when I had a leak at the animal hydrant and used 2400 gallons, the worst (or best) hour was drawing mostly 8gpm with spikes up to 12. Now, if my understanding is correct, I don't know how much 5gpm pump was doing that, but that's what the system provided.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

The 13GS10 should cost less and have less back pressure. The CSV will turn the 13 GPM pump into any size pump you need down to 1 GPM. Whatever water you turn on will be the rate that the CSV lets the pump produce. When you are using 8 GPM, the CSV turns it into an 8 GPM pump.

That's what I thought -- thank you for confirming.

Does the same apply to the Franklin pumps? Would you recommend the Franklin 1hp-10gpm pump?

 

[Reach4]

It has been posted that the 2-wire 4-inch Grundfos motors are not as good as their 3-wire. So if using the Grundfos, consider a 3-wire pump with control box.

Franklin 2-wire motors are good, as are the 3-wire motors.

I don't know why your graph shows those 12 gpm spikes on your graph. But I think you can see that the 5 gpm 1 hp pump was not a good match. 10 gpm 3/4 hp would be a good match. It could easily use 1 inch drop pipe. 13 gpm 1 hp would be a similar ratio. 1 inch may be fine with that. I suspect yes. If you are considering that, then there are calculators.

 

[Valveman]

Franklin makes good motors but terrible pumps. Grundfos makes good pumps but terrible motors. Goulds makes fairly good pumps and motors. My favorite is a Grundfos pump on a Franklin motor, but you have to purchase them separately and put the unit together. Four nuts and a cable guard, it isn't hard to do.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Some more info:

The water in the casing is 13' below the surface (yes, thirteen).

The local supply house has a 3/4hp 10gpm 2 wire Franklin in stock.

Despite the 1" sufficing, I'd be happy to replace with 1-1/4" if it would improve things even a little bit.

I was thinking about getting 175' of pipe to replace the 140' that I pulled out, in case the well is actually deeper than 140'.

Does this sound like a reasonable plan?

 

[Valveman]

That pump will be fine. 1" pipe is all you need. Don't set it deeper unless you know there is extra hole down there. Needs to be 10' or more from the bottom.

Post pictures of the old pump and we will try and figure out why it failed. That is the best way to keep it from failing again.

 

[Reach4]

I was thinking about getting 175' of pipe to replace the 140' that I pulled out, in case the well is actually deeper than 140'.

1. Have you ever pumped the well dry?
2. Will you look for and, if present, remove any above-ground check valve?
3. Will you cap or remove any snifter valve that might still be around?
4. Will you add a check valve on a short brass or stainless nipple right above the pump as a backup to the one in the pump?
5. No comment on a flow inducer?

 

[Joseph Skoler]

1. Have you ever pumped the well dry?
2. Will you look for and, if present, remove any above-ground check valve?
3. Will you cap or remove any snifter valve that might still be around?
4. Will you add a check valve on a short brass or stainless nipple right above the pump as a backup to the one in the pump?
5. No comment on a flow inducer?

I will have answers to these (excellent) items today.

In the meantime, I'd appreciate reviewing:

140' -- Well depth
30' -- Pipe/fittings loss
140' -- 60psi @ 2.31' each
-----
310 feet of total dynamic head.

Does that sound right?

The local dealer has the Franklin 10gpm-3/4hp, 4" J-Class, TriSeal pump in stock. Here is it's graph:

This is where I am even less certain of my understanding. At 300' , it looks like the pump will supply at 5gpm. Is that accurate? If so, it is not only out of the "best efficiency range," but also inadequate for my needs -- right?

Thank you!

 

[Valveman]

If your total head is really 310' the 3/4HP is cutting it too close. But it doesn't matter that the well is 140' deep, the pump is still only lifting from the actual water level. It is common for a pump to be set at 140' and still only be lifting from the water level of say 40'. That will make a big difference in your figuring.

 

[Reach4]

140' -- Well depth

You mean depth to water, which at worst will be where the pump is.

30' -- Pipe/fittings loss

Would only come into play when you are using maximum water flow -- not while the well is ready to run dry. http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/ is a relatively complicated pressure calculator. There is a graph for the drop on the CSV. But I would only presume highest gpm while the water level is fairly high. So that 10 gpm 3/4 hp seems to work. As I said, if flow goes down as you are ready to run the well dry, that sounds like an advantage to me.

But 10 gpm 1 HP is reasonable. Your 5 gpm 1 hp pump was made for lifting from much deeper.