Well pump decided to quit today

[Joseph Skoler]

I had an unexpectedly plumbing-busy Sunday.

Sometime over night, my well pump decided to quit.

I confirmed 240 VAC at the wires just at the head of the well.

I confirmed the pump is not pumping (I have a CSV with pressure gauge on it -- it reads 0 psi).

About 7 years ago I had the pump replaced. I knew even less about plumbing then, and was in a rush, so I called a local well guy. He came, pulled the pump and didn't have a pump with the same specs as what I had previously. He said the one he installed would be fine.

I don't know how deep the well it or the diameter of the casing (but I do believe it is a steel casing). I don't know the specs on the old pump or the one that just died.

I do know that the electric wires and water pipe come out the top of the pump head through a metal plate that is bolted down.

I was thinking I (with a few other guys) would pull the pump tomorrow morning to at least be able to know the casing diameter, depth and current pump specs.

Is there anything else I should do?

As far as what pump I need, I've spent the past few hours reading articles on this and have the most basic understanding of the variables: Max anticipated draw rate (in GPM), depth of well, depth of water level, diameter and type of well pipe, additional height after water leaves the well head, additional length of pipe before fixtures.

Here's what I know:

Depth: Unknown (my guess is about 150')
Depth of water: Unknown
Diameter of casing: Unknown
Material of casing: I believe steel
Diameter of well pipe: Unknown
Type of well pipe: Pretty sure black synthetic (poly maybe?)
Addition height water needs to rise: 0
Pipe distance between well head and fixtures: 200'

Any tips for manually pulling up the pump?

Thank you,

Joseph

 

[John Gayewski]

I'm curious about this too. I've learned very little about wells in plumber school. I was wondering about pulling a pump "manually". It almost seems like you'd need some kind of assembly to hold the pipe while you regrip it. Maybe a gantry or A frame of some kind.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I'm curious about this too. I've learned very little about wells in plumber school. I was wondering about pulling a pump "manually". It almost seems like you'd need some kind of assembly to hold the pipe while you regrip it. Maybe a gantry or A frame of some kind.

Depends on stuff including how far down the pump is, if this is poly pipe, how strong you and your helper are, if you will use hand-over-hand, or if you will use some kind of hoisting arrangements.

Method will vary on whether this uses a pitless adapter, or well seal.

If you lift and find pvc pipe rather than polyethylene, that will make pulling harder without a hoist truck.

I suggest watching some Youtube videos.

I would not do my own, but some do it fine.

Joseph, did you settle on a pump, and flow inducer?

If you pull, note the waterline on the piping.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Depends on stuff including how far down the pump is, if this is poly pipe, how strong you and your helper are, if you will use hand-over-hand, or if you will use some kind of hoisting arrangements.

Method will vary on whether this uses a pitless adapter, or well seal.

If you lift and find pvc pipe rather than polyethylene, that will make pulling harder without a hoist truck.

I suggest watching some Youtube videos.

I would not do my own, but some do it fine.

Joseph, did you settle on a pump, and flow inducer?

If you pull, note the waterline on the piping.

If my memory is correct, the pipe is black flexible and not rigid PVC.

Noting the water line! I've been wondering how people figure out how deep the water is (vs. how deep the well is). What a great solution!

I haven't settled on a pump and I don't know what a flow inducer is. I figure I'll wait until I get the pump out and see what I have, as well as the other info such as case diameter and water and well depth.

Thanks!

 

[Joseph Skoler]

I'm curious about this too. I've learned very little about wells in plumber school. I was wondering about pulling a pump "manually". It almost seems like you'd need some kind of assembly to hold the pipe while you regrip it. Maybe a gantry or A frame of some kind.

I'll take pictures and report back.

Off to youtube now....

 

[Joseph Skoler]

This is what the well head looks like now. Starting the lift.

 

[Valveman]

Have you checked to make sure you have power going down the well? Is there a control box? Do you have 240V coming out of the pressure switch. I hate to pull a pump then find nothing wrong with it.

 

[Reach4]

What keeps your well from freezing? I expect it is a pit.

What is the OD of that well seal ( the plate with the holes in it)? Maybe about 5.6 inches?

With red, black, and green wires, you probably have a 2 wire pump, and the green is ground.

You may want to consider getting your well casing extended and a pitless adapter installed. That makes the well much less subject to contamination. Pits flood, and well seals don't seal.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Have you checked to make sure you have power going down the well? Is there a control box? Do you have 240V coming out of the pressure switch. I hate to pull a pump then find nothing wrong with it.

Yes, 240VAC at the wires going down to the pump.

I just got the pump out.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

What keeps your well from freezing? I expect it is a pit.

What is the OD of that well seal ( the plate with the holes in it)? Maybe about 5.6 inches?

With red, black, and green wires, you probably have a 2 wire pump, and the green is ground.

You may want to consider getting your well casing extended and a pitless adapter installed. That makes the well much less subject to contamination. Pits flood, and well seals don't seal.

The well has a small shack over it -- I think about 10'x16'.

 

[Reach4]

OK on the shack. I expect it either has a heater, or you go out with a kerosene heater when needed.

What is the ID of the casing? Is it steel or PVC? This will affect whether you should have a flow inducer or not. If 5 inch ID or greater, a flow inducer will help the motor keep cooler and last longer.

Getting the casing extended above ground would be best to avoid flooding. Second best would be to put a pit with a sump pump in there.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Here's what I've got so far.

I pulled the pump.

Poly pipe diameter: 1"
Total poly pipe length: 138'
Steel well casing diameter: 6"
Total well depth: Unknown
Pump make: Centripro, 2 wire.; also says Goulds
Pump modem: M10422-01; also says 5HS10422C
Pump power: 1 HP

The whole pipe was wet, so I can't tell how deep the water table is.

Would I be wise to get a 1.5hp, 18 gpm pump and replace the pipe with 1.25" poly?

Thank you!

 

[Joseph Skoler]

Here's some pictures of the ugliness:

 

[Joseph Skoler]

More

 

[Joseph Skoler]

More

 

[Joseph Skoler]

more

 

[Reach4]

What is that hole? Is that in the drop pipe about 4 or 5 ft down?

Did the motor fail, or is there some other failure like a bad splice?

The whole pipe was wet, so I can't tell how deep the water table is.

I was thinking about a layer of deposits rather than wetness.

Would I be wise to get a 1.5hp, 18 gpm pump and replace the pipe with 1.25" poly?

Was that for 6 bathrooms and 10 people?

I would go 7gpm 1/2 HP to 3/4 HP or 10 gpm 3/4 HP to 1 hp, unless you have some special need.

Your 1 hp 5 gpm pump was too much pump for you. You did not need that much lifting power.

To measure your water depth, you could drop an ice cube/mass on a string.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

What is that hole? Is that in the drop pipe about 4 or 5 ft down?

Did the motor fail, or is there some other failure like a bad splice?



I was thinking about a layer of deposits rather than wetness.

Was that for 6 bathrooms and 10 people?

I would go 7gpm 1/2 HP to 3/4 HP or 10 gpm 3/4 HP to 1 hp, unless you have some special need.

Your 1 hp 5 gpm pump was too much pump for you. You did not need that much lifting power.

To measure your water depth, you could drop an ice cube/mass on a string.

The motor seems to have failed.

That is a hole in the poly pipe. I wonder if the water was always leaking back down out of the pressure tank and into the poly pipe and then out through that hole. Or, if some of the pressurized water being pumped was coming out of that hole and never making into the pressure tank.

6 bathrooms, 4 kitchens, animals and lawn.

What is the downside to getting a 1hp 20gpm pump (for example)?

I've got a CSV on the system too, which (if I understand correctly) would modulate the flow rate on the pump when a slower rate is needed.

 

[Reach4]

How far down was that hole? It may have been there intentionally originally. Or not. It does not look like a blow-out to me.

The motor seems to have failed.

That is a hole in the poly pipe. I wonder if the water was always leaking back down out of the pressure tank and into the poly pipe and then out through that hole. Or, if some of the pressurized water being pumped was coming out of that hole and never making into the pressure tank.

6 bathrooms, 4 kitchens, animals and lawn.

What is the downside to getting a 1hp 20gpm pump (for example)?

I've got a CSV on the system too, which (if I understand correctly) would modulate the flow rate on the pump when a slower rate is needed.

You really need a flow inducer sleeve. Search in this forum for flow inducer. If you want more info or ideas, let us know.

Your exploration should include
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/flow-inducer-sleeve.95740/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/submersible-pump-inducer-sleeve-help.55949/

Here are some dimensions for you"
solvent weld D2729 sewer pipe: OD 4.215 ID 4.056 ( white or green)
Schedule 40: OD 4.500 ID 4.026
SDR 35 OD: 4.215 ID 3.97 SDR 35 (PS46) ASTM D3034

Each is big enough ID to make a flow inducer sleeve for a "4 inch" pump.

1hp 20gpm is not strong enough to pump to 60 psi from 140 ft.
A 1hp 13 gpm pump would be strong enough, which is a Goulds size.

Think about driving/peddling up a hill in high gear. A pump with fewer stages is like being in high gear.

 

[Joseph Skoler]

How far down was that hole? It may have been there intentionally originally. Or not. It does not look like a blow-out to me.


You really need a flow inducer sleeve. Search in this forum for flow inducer. If you want more info or ideas, let us know.

Your exploration should include
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/flow-inducer-sleeve.95740/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/submersible-pump-inducer-sleeve-help.55949/

Here are some dimensions for you"
solvent weld D2729 sewer pipe: OD 4.215 ID 4.056 ( white or green)
Schedule 40: OD 4.500 ID 4.026
SDR 35 OD: 4.215 ID 3.97 SDR 35 (PS46) ASTM D3034

Each is big enough ID to make a flow inducer sleeve for a "4 inch" pump.

1hp 20gpm is not strong enough to pump to 60 psi from 140 ft.
A 1hp 13 gpm pump would be strong enough, which is a Goulds size.

Think about driving/peddling up a hill in high gear. A pump with fewer stages is like being in high gear.

The hole in the pipe is about 3' down from the top.

I can't say I understand how a 1hp/20gpm is not sufficient but a 1hp/13gpm would be, but I do trust that you know infinitely more about this than I do. Sounds like more stages is the key.

Here is a pic of the hole: