Well pump cycling on without water use in house

[hackbrew]

I'm losing pressure in my holding tank without using any water in the house and therefore my well pump is cycling on too often... water must be going somewhere. I checked for leaks in the house... leaky toilets, under sinks, leaky faucets, but I couldn't find anything wrong. About 8 weeks ago I noticed the well pump was coming on about every 24 minutes, without any water use in the house. 4 weeks ago it was coming on about every 20 minutes, now it's coming on about every 16 minutes.

I took the well cap off last night and peaked down to the pitless adapter and it looked okay (I didn't see any water leaks) when the submersible pump (about 75 feet down) came on or when it was off. In the house there is no water coming out of the holding tank. If the bladder in my holding tank was going bad, wouldn't it happen pretty quickly and wouldn't the pump just cycle on and off quickly? I would think if I had a leak in the black pipe running from the well casing to the house I would see ground water somewhere. I guess I could have a bad check or foot valve down by the pump, a bad fitting somewhere, or a cracked pipe between the pitless and the pump.

How can I diagnose whether the problem is with the holding tank or somewhere outside?

 

[hj]

quote; I guess I could have a bad check or foot valve down by the pump, a bad fitting somewhere, or a cracked pipe between the pitless and the pump.

That pretty much covers the possibilities. Turn off the water valve at the tank to isolate it from the house. If the problem still occurs, then it is either at the pump or the pipe to the tank. It has nothing to do with the tank itself, however.

 

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[hackbrew]

hj, my main shutoff to the house is after the 1989 Well-X-Trol tank and therefore I don't think I can isolate it. I have black pipe coming into my basement, then it looks like a brass barbed fitting that converts it to copper, then into a large brass T fitting. just prior to the intersection of the T is my pressure switch and then a relief valve, then the intersection of the T, then one leg of the T feeds to the Tank, the other leg is the output for the house. Just pasty the intersection of the T is the pressure gauge and then the main shutoff after that.

Based on this configuration it doesn't appear I can isolate it to the pump or the pipe to the tank... correct? If I put a shutoff just before the T (before the holding tank) and close the valve on the shutoff, how would I know if I'm losing pressure without also putting another pressure gauge before the holding tank?

 

[LLigetfa]

If you can close a valve between the tank and the house and the pressure still drops, the leak is between the pump and the tank. The leak could be at the checkvalve on the pump, the drop pipe in the well, or the pipe between the pitless and the tank.

At this point, you need to divide and test. Pull the pump and pressure test between the pitless and the pump. If that holds, it is between the pitless and the tank.

 

[Bluebinky]

I'm definitely not a well expert, but I do remember a problem we had once where the schrader valve on the holding tank had a slow leak. As the air charge gradually leaked out, the pump would cycle more frequently. Of course, the real problem was a bad check valve (allowing the tank to drain).

The first thing we did was check the charge, and that is probably what caused the tank to go flat...

 

[LLigetfa]

If 8 weeks ago the well pump was coming on about every 24 minutes without any water use due to an air leak at the tank, there would be no air left by now and the pump would be coming on more often than every 16 minutes. Simple test... measure how much water needs to be drawn off from a full tank before the pump comes on. That will tell you how much drawdown you have and how much water is leaking out.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

There are a few things that are certain. One is that you cannot lose pressure unless there is a leak. If you shut the valve and the problem goes away, the leak is then in the house. If the problem does not go away, the leak is between the pump and the tank.

A common leak in the house which is often overlooked is the toilet flapper leaking, which causes the toilet to run to refill the tank.

 

[hackbrew]

My pressure tank is a Well-X-Trol WX-203 and my pump is a Myers S2372-J711P. I noticed that my pressure gauge is stuck at 45psi and is not moving up or down, so I'm assuming it's broken. This weekend I am going to drain the tank, replace the pressure gauge, and cut the black poly pipe just before the pressure tank and insert an inline check valve (with two barbed fittings) there. If the leak is at the check valve on the pump, the drop pipe in the well, or the pipe between the pitless and the tank then this new check valve will at least isolate the tank and the house from the problem. If it corrects the problem, and the leak is between the pitless and the tank, then I would think I would see ground water at some point.

Is there a downside to correcting the problem by putting a check valve just before the pressure tank? The only thing I could think of is if the problem is the check valve at the pump or the drop pipe in the well, then I'm just pumping water to the next check valve.

 

[hj]

If you can isolate the house from the tank, and the problem persists, it can ONLY be in the pipe TO the tank or the pump itself. There is NOTHING in. or at, the tank that could cause your symptoms. you are trying to make the diagnosis much more difficult than it is.

 

[hackbrew]

Hj, first off, thanks for the quick response. If my pressure gauge was working I could close the main shutoff (which is after the pressure tank) and see if the pressure drops. If the pressure drops the problem is not in the house, and vise versa. Since it is not working I guess I could wait for the pump to cycle on and immediately when it shuts off, I could close the main shutoff valve to the house. Wait 20 minutes or so, open the shut off valve and see if the pump cycles on. If so, I have a leak somewhere back to the pump... and if that's true, what are the downsides to correcting the problem by putting a check valve just before the pressure tank? Should I have one there anyway regardless of this problem I'm having?

My thought is if I'm not seeing ground water outside, than the worst case is that the pump runs for just a few more seconds at most. Pumps don't mind running, but they hate cycling on/off... correct?

 

[LLigetfa]

Is there a downside to correcting the problem by putting a check valve just before the pressure tank?

Yes there is. Read the sticky at the top of the forum.

You should have a shutoff between the tank and the house, so ruling out the house should be easy. If the tank were leaking you should see water so ruling out the tank should also be easy. You could pull the pipe from the well off the tank and put a schrader valve on the end to pressurize it with a compressor. That will tell you if there is a leak between the tank and the pump.