Well Pump Constantly Running

[bryan_o]

Hello all, I've lived in my house for 6 years and have recently noticed a constant noise (sounds like water running) coming from the top of the well outside.

I've also noticed that as soon as I turn off power to my well pump, the pressure on the pressure tank immediately drops from 40psi to 0psi in about 5 seconds. When I turn the switch back on, it slowly pressurizes back up to 40psi and stays there, but the pump sounds like it's staying on. I checked the pressure of the tank with a tire gauge (with power off and tank gauge reading 0psi), and it said ~40psi.

I replaced the pressure switch with a new one from Home Depot but it still does the same thing. Does it sound like I may have a leak? Or possible a bad check valve at the pressure tank? I don't see any obvious wet spots in my yard, are there easy ways of identifying where the leak is? Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Is the pump down the well?

In Connecticut, sorry to say, they mandate a topside check valve that would have hidden this failure sorta. It is better to not have that topside check valve in most people's opinion. So if you get a well guy out, he might install an undesired check valve. I am not a pro. Still, this situation will have made your water bill go up, and the well guy will get your water working.

So what is your failure? Hole/leak in a pipe/path is probable. This can be on the way to the pitless. It can be a failed o-ring at the pitless adapter. It can be in the drop pipe between the pitless adapter and the pump. A hole on the way to the pitless may cause a wetter area with greener grass. A leak at the pitless might be (seeable in bright light) or hearable with the well cap off.

If you have no pitless, the same thinking applies: a leak.

There is a less-likely possible cause: the pump is getting weak and the check valve at the pump failed. This two-factor failure mode is less likely.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bryan_o]

Is the pump down the well?

Indeed it is a submersible pump, and I appreciate your response.

As you mentioned, there is a check valve coming off the pressure tank. I thought that since replacing that valve is easy, it could be worth a shot before trying to pull the drop pipe out.

I can hear what sounds like an air leak coming from the well cap whenever the pump is on (which is always, unless I cut the power). I haven't seen any especially wet or green spots in my lawn along the path of the water line from the well to the house, but I'll try taking the well cap off and checking for a leak at the pitless adapter.

 

[Reach4]

As you mentioned, there is a check valve coming off the pressure tank. I thought that since replacing that valve is easy, it could be worth a shot before trying to pull the drop pipe out.

Ah.... Somebody may have removed the innards on purpose, but in any case, that check valve is not checking. But if you want to fix or replace that check valve to get things going temporarily, you could adjust the pressure switch to 15-35 psi, and adjust the air precharge in the pressure tank accordingly.

However I think instead you should get this fixed. Well work is a lot better in the spring and summer than in the winter. Ask your neighbors about well people.

If doing your own initial troubleshooting, do you have a pitless adapter? Maybe show us a picture of your well cap. Tell us the OD and material of your casing.

 

[Valveman]

If you can hear it then probably the pitless leaking. Take off the cap and look down 5 feet. Check valve not making any difference because pump isn't shutting off.

 

[bryan_o]

If you can hear it then probably the pitless leaking. Take off the cap and look down 5 feet. Check valve not making any difference because pump isn't shutting off.

Just removed the well cap and sure enough, there is an absolutely massive leak which appears to be right below the pitless adapter. I cannot believe it, this has been going on for at least a few months now.

I'm heading to Lowes to buy a new pitless and some threaded pipe to try and replace it. While I'm sure the recommended practice is to replace the entire adapter (both the part which passes through the casing and the part which connects to the drop pipe), I'd like to avoid digging a big deep hole if I don't absolutely need to. Would I be crazy to only replace the inside piece of the adapter (the part connecting to the drop pipe)?

 

[Reach4]

Just removed the well cap and sure enough, there is an absolutely massive leak which appears to be right below the pitless adapter. I cannot believe it, this has been going on for at least a few months now.

I'm heading to Lowes to buy a new pitless and some threaded pipe to try and replace it. While I'm sure the recommended practice is to replace the entire adapter (both the part which passes through the casing and the part which connects to the drop pipe), I'd like to avoid digging a big deep hole if I don't absolutely need to. Would I be crazy to only replace the inside piece of the adapter (the part connecting to the drop pipe)?

That is about the best news you could find.

However know that pitless adapter pieces are not routinely interchangeable. More likely, you want an o-ring, and the best way to get that would be to find an o-ring kit. I will try to find some past posts on that. If you replace the pitless, you would probably change both parts... unless you can identify the pitless and find a matching one.

Or maybe run the old o-ring to a really good hardware store (not a big box store) and they will have an o-ring or two. I would use Molykote 111 or similar for around the o-ring. https://www.danco.com/product/0-5-oz-silicone-faucet-grease/ Danco 88693 meets NSF 61 is probably ok too, and will be more readily available locally. I don't know about its viscosity, and thick viscosity is not critical... I just think thicker is best for this application. Lower viscosity is much better than none, since the main purpose of the silicone grease is to get the rubber to flow into slight surface irregularities. You need silicone grease, and not silicone sealant. You use a very light coat.

See
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/leaky-pitless-adapter.90975/ including #11.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pitless-o-ring-replacement.77273/

 

[bryan_o]

That is about the best news you could find.

However know that pitless adapter pieces are not routinely interchangeable. More likely, you want an o-ring, and the best way to get that would be to find an o-ring kit. I will try to find some past posts on that. If you replace the pitless, you would probably change both parts... unless you can identify the pitless and find a matching one.

Or maybe run the old o-ring to a really good hardware store (not a big box store) and they will have an o-ring or two. I would use Molykote 111 or similar for around the o-ring. https://www.danco.com/product/0-5-oz-silicone-faucet-grease/ Danco 88693 meets NSF 61 is probably ok too, and will be more readily available locally. I don't know about its viscosity, and thick viscosity is not critical... I just think thicker is best for this application. Lower viscosity is much better than none, since the main purpose of the silicone grease is to get the rubber to flow into slight surface irregularities. You need silicone grease, and not silicone sealant. You use a very light coat.

See
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/leaky-pitless-adapter.90975/ including #11.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pitless-o-ring-replacement.77273/

I replaced the o-ring on the pitless with one I found at a local True Value (along with some silicone grease as you advised) and now the tank pressurizes up to 60psi and the switch turns off. However, it slowly loses pressure and the pump will turn back on after 2-3 minutes. It's about 15 seconds on, then 2-3 minutes off. Do you think this sound more like a potential check valve (at the pressure tank) issue? Or is my new o-ring likely still leaking?

 

[Reach4]

It's good that you have water now. I would turn off the pump most of the time until you get this fixed. Were there markings on the piece of the pitless that you lifted?

Look down the well with a bright flashlight at night, or a mirror to reflect the bright sun light down the well. When the water is pressurized you see leaking?

Got the old o-ring? How does its cross section diameter differ from the new one?

I would consider finding a thicker o-ring. Maybe two different thicknesses, so if the thicker one does not go in, use the thinner one.

Also, as a temporary thing, you could turn down the pressure switch to maybe 25/45. That should slow the water flow to around 3/4 of what is flowing now. You would reduce the air precharge to 25-2=23 psi. Each 3.5 turns CCW of the nut on the big spring is about 10 psi.

 

[Valveman]

Only on for 15 seconds is not good. Either your tank is too small or it is waterlogged and bad. A system without a Cycle Stop Valve should run a minimum of 1 minute, 2 minutes is better, and running continuously (when using water) is a good thing. But yeah you still have a leak somewhere.

 

[Bannerman]

Do you think this sound more like a potential check valve (at the pressure tank) issue?

Since it a submersible pump, there should not be a check valve located at the pressure tank. The only check valve should be within the pump and the additional check valve could be preventing the pump's CV from fully closing. You might try removing the tank CV, or remove the CV's internal gate to determine if the leak situation will improve.

While the pump is shut off, drain the pressure tank fully and measure the precharge air pressure in the air chamber. It should be precharged with air to 2 psi lower than the pressure switch activation pressure such as 38 psi for a 40/60 pressure switch.

 

[Reach4]

You might try removing the tank CV, or remove the CV's internal gate to determine if the leak situation will improve.

That may have been done already.

 

[Bannerman]

That may have been done already.

Since he asked if it could be a potential CV (at the tank) issue, it appears the OP continues to consider it is operating as a CV. At this point, the status of the CV internals remains unknown.

 

[Reach4]

Since he asked if it could be a potential CV (at the tank) issue, it appears the OP continues to consider it is operating as a CV. At this point, the status of the CV internals remains unknown.

If I read correctly, it is not currently functioning as a CV. Otherwise he would not get the cycling when not using water. A working CV would hide that mostly. Better to fix the leak, if practical, than to put in a working CV to mask the leak.

 

[bryan_o]

If I read correctly, it is not currently functioning as a CV. Otherwise he would not get the cycling when not using water. A working CV would hide that mostly. Better to fix the leak, if practical, than to put in a working CV to mask the leak.

Quick update: I realized the pressure tank was waterlogged so I replaced it along with a new CV and tee, and my problems are gone. The pump no longer cycles every few minutes.

As I understand, I need to retain the CV at the tank due to Connecticut's regulations. I also wanted to thank you, Reach4, for the ongoing guidance as I sorted this out - it's truly appreciated!

 

[Valveman]

Quick update: I realized the pressure tank was waterlogged so I replaced it along with a new CV and tee, and my problems are gone. The pump no longer cycles every few minutes.

As I understand, I need to retain the CV at the tank due to Connecticut's regulations. I also wanted to thank you, Reach4, for the ongoing guidance as I sorted this out - it's truly appreciated!

Well sort of. If you still have a leak down the well the check valve at the tank is masking the problem by holding in the tank pressure. But you will either get air in the lines or a water hammer on pump start. If the leak is in the underground line, it will suck in dirt and contamination into your water system. This vacuum in the lines is caused by the check valve at the tank, which is why it is illegal in states that know how things work. I wouldn't care if it was a "regulation", I would not have a check valve anywhere except on the submersible pump.

Then, replacing the pressure may have stopped the pump from cycling every few minutes, but it will go back to the same cycling that caused the problem in the first place. So called "normal cycling' every minute or two while using water is what causes things to fail like check valves, tank bladders, pressure switches, start capacitors, etc.

 

[Reach4]

I am glad that you now have good water, but read Valveman's #16. Maybe putting a valve in parallel with the check valve, if you work on it again, would let you bypass the check valve once you fix the leak -- maybe by putting in the right o-ring.

Quick update: I realized the pressure tank was waterlogged so I replaced it along with a new CV and tee, and my problems are gone. The pump no longer cycles every few minutes.

Does it cycle at all when you are not consuming water? Not even once per hour?