Well Pressure Question with pics and video

[Pktaske]

Moved in and we have very low pressure to everything. My last house was an above ground duel jet pump well but this is a deep well pump in the ground so less familiar.

Ballast has pressure. When I opened the switch and press down plate to activate, pressure moves up to about 55 pounds. If Im running a faucet and I activate switch, it pressures to about 55 but then starts dropping away and it's down to 30 again in about 10 seconds.

Any ideas? Bad foot valve? Thanks...

Note - can't post video. Not sure why buy maybe size? Here is link

faucet on 2.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[LLigetfa]

Pressure switches generally have a minimum delta of 20 PSI unless someone made adjustments to the small spring. Loosen the nut on the small spring to reduce the delta. A pressure switch that kicks out at 55 should kick in at 35. If it does not, then replace it.

Tighten the big spring to get it to kick out at 60 and in at 40, or perhaps higher such as 70/50.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

BTW, when checking and adjusting the air pressure (precharge), the water pressure needs to be zero and the drain valve open.

 

[Reach4]

Submersible pumps have a check valve in or at the pump, but we don't call it a foot valve. Same function however. And yours may be leaking. Shut the valve after the pressure tank, and see if the dropping of the pressure slows. This is checking to see if the leak could be elsewhere. It is easy to try.

It is best to only have a check valve in or at the pump. However a check valve topside, such as at the pressure tank, can work around that temporarily -- until the pump gets pulled for some reason. There may be some water slamming into that topside check valve when the pump turns on. There would be a vacuum in the pipe to the well, so contamination could be sucked in.

How long does the pump run to go from say 35 to 55?

Air precharge is always measured and set with the water pressure zero. If the air precharge is lower than the water pressure , the air pressure gauge will show about the same as water pressure gauge.


At 55psi I presume the switch shuts off the pump, rather than the pump just barely making it to that pressure.

 

[Bannerman]

Your video shows the pressure rise from 35 to 55 psi is too rapid. This is usually caused by either the pressure tank being drastically undersized, or there is insufficient air pre-charge within the tank.

Shut off power to the pump and open a faucet to drain the plumbing until all water stops exiting the faucet. Gently rock the pressure tank back and forth to ensure no water remains in the tank. If any water does remain, use an air compressor to add small amounts of air into the tank's Schrader valve (similar to tire fill valve) until all of the water has been pushed out from the tank to the open faucet.

Once the tank is completely empty of water, use a tire pressure guage to check the tank's air pre-charge pressure. The air pre-charge should be calibrated to 33 psi for your 35/55 psi pressure switch range.

Before restoring power to the pump, wait 30-minutes to again check the tank's pre-charge pressure to confirm it remains at 33 psi. If the pre-charge pressure is lower than 33, then the diaphragm within the tank is defective and so the tank will need to be replaced.

Edit: The cut-in pressure appears to be actually 32 psi and the cut-out at 58 psi. As LL said, the pressure switch is usually set for a 20 psi pressure differential. If you continue to use the existing pressure switch as it is currently configured, then the pressure tank air pre-charge pressure should be adjusted to 30 psi.

 

[Pktaske]

BTW, when checking and adjusting the air pressure (precharge), the water pressure needs to be zero and the drain valve open.

Yes. I shut the pump switch off then opened the drain valve right below the pressure switch before I tested the bladder pressure.

 

[Pktaske]

How long does the pump run to go from say 35 to 55?

PRETTY quick. It's in the video. A few seconds.

At 55psi I presume the switch shuts off the pump, rather than the pump just barely making it to that pressure.

YES. Very strong.

 

[Reach4]

Once you confirm the cycling even if you valve off the water to the house, the problem has to either be
1. bad check valve at/in the pump
2. a big leak/hole in the piping to the pump. If the leak is above the water, there may be some air introduced after you have had the pump powered off for a while.

 

[Bannerman]

You haven't actually confirmed the air pre-charge pressure in the tank while it contains no water.

The name 'faucet on' you assigned to your video suggests that a faucet is open which is the cause of the system pressure drop once the pump turns off. Clarify if there is no actual open faucet.

To reduce pump cycling, the usual method to size the pressure tank is to cause the pump to run at minimum for 60 and maximum 120 seconds while no water is being drawn, to raise the system pressure from 35 to 55 psi or whatever pressure range the switch is set to. Because your pump is running only a few seconds to cause a 20+ psi increase in the system, this suggests the tank contains insufficient air.

Any pre-charge air within the 'pressure tank' will become further compressed while pressure is rising while the pump is running. It is the correct quantity of compressed air that will store pressure and will maintain pressure within the system when the pump is shut off.

Insufficient pre-charge air in the tank will cause the tank to become substantially waterlogged, so the capacity to store pressure will be essentually eliminated, causing the system pressure to immediately decline once the pump shuts off, even though there may be no water leak.

 

[Pktaske]

You haven't actually confirmed the air pre-charge pressure in the tank while it contains no water.

The name 'faucet on' you assigned to your video suggests that a faucet is open which is the cause of the system pressure drop once the pump turns off. Clarify if there is no actual open faucet.

To reduce pump cycling, the usual method to size the pressure tank is to cause the pump to run at minimum for 60 and maximum 120 seconds while no water is being drawn, to raise the system pressure from 35 to 55 psi or whatever pressure range the switch is set to. Because your pump is running only a few seconds to cause a 20+ psi increase in the system, this suggests the tank contains insufficient air.

Any pre-charge air within the 'pressure tank' will become further compressed while pressure is rising while the pump is running. It is the correct quantity of compressed air that will store pressure and will maintain pressure within the system when the pump is shut off.

Insufficient pre-charge air in the tank will cause the tank to become substantially waterlogged, so the capacity to store pressure will be essentually eliminated, causing the system pressure to immediately decline once the pump shuts off, even though there may be no water leak.

Pressure was taken with pump off and water drained. Note that I had to put pressure in myself. It was zero prior.

Here's a new video of filling my pool. Obviously the tank is doing zero good.

The funny thing is, it seems to have lots of pressure in there still as when I depress the valve, strong air comes out.

How could it be holding air but not be working ? How can I truly confirm this is a pressure tank membrane issue before I replace it? Or is this enough to know its bad?

filling pool.mp4

drive.google.com

 

[Reach4]

The tank could be retaining air poorly. Usually you don't expect to lose 2 psi in a year (I made that up-- it feels right to me). Filling the tank with air periodically could be a workaround until you get a new tank. Do keep a sealed valve cap on the tank Schrader valve. That should be your primary seal for the valvestem.

With your symptoms, you cannot do the regular capacity test. If your tank is 20 gallons, it should hold about 5 gallons. But your leaking will not let you test that.

Your opening sentence was "Moved in and we have very low pressure to everything. ". That is an additional symptom, depending on how you define "low pressure to everything. ".

Look for a clogged sediment filter or clogged softener or something. Try a garden hose thread pressure gauge on a laundry tap or the WH drain. If you run the shower etc, there should not be a lot of difference in that new pressure gauge and the one one at the pressure switch. I think 5 psi would be a lot.

 

[Valveman]

The tank is certainly bad. Filling a pool with a good tank causes lots of cycling. Pump won't last long kicking on and off like that.

 

[Bannerman]

Filling a pool with a good tank causes lots of cycling.

A bad tank will cause the cycling to be even more frequent, just as is observed in your situation.

The fact there was initially no air is an indicator that there is a problem with that tank.

 

[Pktaske]

I'm going to replace the tank today. Just one question - is it at all possible the short supply line to the pressure tank is blocked with sediment, effectively making the tank useless?

 

[Valveman]

I'm going to replace the tank today. Just one question - is it at all possible the short supply line to the pressure tank is blocked with sediment, effectively making the tank useless?

No. If the line under the tank was clogged it would cycle on/off much faster than what you are seeing with a bad diaphragm in that tank. It is a "normal" tank diaphragm failure which is nearly always caused by cycling.

 

[Pktaske]

Ok. All fixed! Tank.

 

[Valveman]

Ok. All fixed! Tank.

What did you fix???

 

[Pktaske]

Replaced pressure tank.

What did you fix??