Well leaking down Bad check valve? Wont consistently build pressure

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dfkrause

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I have a check valve at the pressure tank so it holds the current pressure, switch is a 30/50. Once pressure drops to 30 psi, pressure switch kicks on but pressure continues to drop to 0, within 30 Seconds to a minute pressure returns. I am guessing there is a leak in the pipe or bad check valve. Thoughts?

I am also having a problem with it building pressure to 50 without the symcom pump saver plus kicking off for dry run. This happens often but not always . I have been monitoring for several days at different times, the highest amps I see have been 6.5 snd the pump saver kicks in when it drops to 4.4-4.6. If Irun the pump with the valve at the bottom of the pressure tank open (building no pressure in the tank) it will pump water forever, once I close the valve it builds pressure to 30-35 PSI amps drop and trigger pump saver. The leak down problem is new. The amp drop, dry run problem I have had since having a burned out pump replaced about 5 years ago. At the pump change I was told my water level was low, about 360 feet down the hole. Prior to this I had no issues for 6 years of owning the house.

well 460 ft
Pump set at 400
3/4 hp Gould's 2 wire
Gpm unknown

I finally have my 500 gal water tank system in place and ready to put into operation. First I would like to take care of any issues causing these problems,

Thanks for any and all help, thoughts or ideas.

Dennis
 

Reach4

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I have a check valve at the pressure tank so it holds the current pressure, switch is a 30/50. Once pressure drops to 30 psi, pressure switch kicks on but pressure continues to drop to 0, within 30 Seconds to a minute pressure returns. I am guessing there is a leak in the pipe or bad check valve. Thoughts?
Your theory about the leaking check valve in the pump could certainly cause a delay. There are other possibilities. Normally you would only want the check valve in the pump and optionally one right above the pump for redundancy.

One possibility is that the pressure switch is defective, or that the nipple that connects to the pressure switch is clogged. If you hear the switch click, the problem would not be the nipple. It could maybe still be the pressure switch.
Check the voltage out of the pressure switch to see if it is delayed. Typically that voltage to the pump is across terminals 2 and 3 of the switch, and power from the breaker is across terminals 1 and 4. Had you had a 3-wire pump, we would have suspected a start capacitor.

Is the pump saver before or after the pressure switch? If after, measure the voltage going to the pump from the pump saver terminals while the pump is delayed.

Having you pump set at 440 ft may be a good idea the next time the pump is pulled. You would probably need a pump with more lift power.

I expect you have a 5 gpm pump, because a 7 gpm 3/4 hp pump would not be able to lift from your depth and get close to 50 psi. If your wires can support it, I would go to a 1 HP. If your wires cannot handle 1 HP, I would run new wires.

It may be that once you start filling the tank, controlled by a float switch, rather than the pressure switch, the pump in the well may be OK. You will be pumping into zero psi.

With the 500 gallon tank, you could use a 1/2 hp 10 gpm submersible horizontally, and get more than enough pressure. It would be quiet. A jet pump would be noisier.

IMG_7.png

In this sketch, the upper float switch controls the well pump. There could be an optional additional device that detects the well being short of water to shut down the well pump for a period. Some wells are not expected to run out of water, and other wells may be expected to run out of water after much water use.

The lower float switch is optional. It would be in series with the pressure switch, and would shut down the pressure pump if the open tank runs short of water.

index.php
 
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dfkrause

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Your theory about the leaking check valve in the pump could certainly cause a delay. There are other possibilities. Normally you would only want the check valve in the pump and optionally one right above the pump for redundancy.

One possibility is that the pressure switch is defective, or that the nipple that connects to the pressure switch is clogged. If you hear the switch click, the problem would not be the nipple. It could maybe still be the pressure switch.
Check the voltage out of the pressure switch to see if it is delayed. Typically that voltage to the pump is across terminals 2 and 3 of the switch, and power from the breaker is across terminals 1 and 4. Had you had a 3-wire pump, we would have suspected a start capacitor.

Is the pump saver before or after the pressure switch? If after, measure the voltage going to the pump from the pump saver terminals while the pump is delayed.

Having you pump set at 440 ft may be a good idea the next time the pump is pulled. You would probably need a pump with more lift power.

I expect you have a 5 gpm pump, because a 7 gpm 3/4 hp pump would not be able to lift from your depth and get close to 50 psi. If your wires can support it, I would go to a 1 HP. If your wires cannot handle 1 HP, I would run new wires.

It may be that once you start filling the tank, controlled by a float switch, rather than the pressure switch, the pump in the well may be OK. You will be pumping into zero psi.

With the 500 gallon tank, you could use a 1/2 hp 10 gpm submersible horizontally, and get more than enough pressure. It would be quiet. A jet pump would be noisier.

View attachment 76049
In this sketch, the upper float switch controls the well pump. There could be an optional additional device that detects the well being short of water to shut down the well pump for a period. Some wells are not expected to run out of water, and other wells may be expected to run out of water after much water use.

The lower float switch is optional. It would be in series with the pressure switch, and would shut down the pressure pump if the open tank runs short of water.

index.php
Thanks for the in-depth response. I will check out the things you mentioned. Much sppreciated.

Dennis
 

Valveman

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If when you open a faucet at the tank you can really run water forever, your well is not being pumped dry. Could be the Pumpsaver just needs to be recalibrated for the new pump. Could also be the water level in the well is dropping so low the Pumpsaver is not adjustable enough to work at the lower amperage. I would remove the top check valve and see if the added pressure makes the down hole check valve start working again. If not, the pump will need to be pulled to replace the check valve. Check valves like everything else in a pump system are destroyed from the pump cycling on and off. Stopping the cycling makes everything last longer and work better.

LOW YIELD WELL_and storage with two PK1A one pipe.jpg
 

2stupid2fixit

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If when you open a faucet at the tank you can really run water forever, your well is not being pumped dry. Could be the Pumpsaver just needs to be recalibrated for the new pump. Could also be the water level in the well is dropping so low the Pumpsaver is not adjustable enough to work at the lower amperage. I would remove the top check valve and see if the added pressure makes the down hole check valve start working again. If not, the pump will need to be pulled to replace the check valve. Check valves like everything else in a pump system are destroyed from the pump cycling on and off. Stopping the cycling makes everything last longer and work better.

View attachment 76055

Valveman always says no check valves except right on top of the submersible pump. He's right. I had a situation similar to yours and it was all due to a dry-rotted pitless gasket. The Check valve in the house kept the water in the pressure tank.... but the feed line to the house leaked down to the well. All the while the pump was sitting idle and not running that feed line filled with air because of no seal at the pitless. When the pump was called on for water, it pushed air in front of the water and caused the house to sound worse than a haunted house ride at the local carnival. I got rid of the in-house check valve and it got better but the pitless gasket was still leaking so the pressure tank would spend its idle time squeezing water back down the well.
It wasn't until i figured out the correct gasket for the pitlesss and made a good seal that the system started giving me city-like pressure without sounding likes someone hit the house with a car. How is your pitless seal? It may be just that simple.
 
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