Weird jet pump install, losing pressure

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GreggT

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I live in an old house with an old dug, stone-lined well that looks to be maybe 15' deep. This well was setup with a FloTec 4322 when we bought the place.

I'm having trouble with the pump slowly losing pressure - the pump kicks on every ~30 minutes, and I've ruled out a house leak.

The pump sits in my basement, maybe 5' above the water level in the well, which is ~40 feet away inside my garage, in a manhole cover (setup after we purchased the property and built the garage). The jet pump is setup with a twin pipe deep well configuration at the pump side. I went to look at the foot valve/injector assuming the check valve was the likely culprit, and got a surprise. There is a single pipe, looks like it might be 3/4" copper, coming into the well through the stones a couple of feet below the water line, which is maybe 4' from the garage floor. The pipe goes down to the bottom of the well, where I'm guessing there is a strainer, but can't really tell. Presumably this line is from before the jet pump was installed.

How is this possible? Do you suppose they installed the injector assembly underground right outside the well? The well is close enough to the edge of the building that I could potentially dig to it, but it would be below the water line. At this point it seems like repairing whatever is going on at the well is unlikely.

Before I go to a plan B like installing a submersible in the well and a new line via the garage, I'm wondering if given the shallowness of the well, I can reconfigure the 4322 to a shallow setup and put a check valve in the basement right before the pump.

All thoughts much appreciated.

- Gregg
 

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Cary Austin
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If the water level is less than 24' a single pipe jet pump is all that is needed. The jet pump will have the veturi and ejector mounted on the front of the pump, which connects to the single pipe going down the well. There is probably a foot valve at the bottom of the well pipe that is leaking back. That foot valve on the bottom should be replaced. Adding another check valve before the pump sometimes works. But it is like putting your finger over a straw to keep the water from going out the bottom. Any tiny vacuum leak and you will lose prime. Best to replace the foot valve at the bottom. Oh and BTW, cycling on and off too much is usually the reason for a failed foot or check valve as well as the failure of everything else in a pump system.
 

GreggT

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The mystery is where the injector is. If it's buried outside the well, which it must be, and the check valve is installed there as you might expect, I can't get at the check valve. The best I can do is add another check valve to the pickup pipe in the well.
 

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The ejector is attached to the pump. It is what makes the two suction holes in the pump combine into one before attaching the well pipe. The foot valve should be at the bottom of the well pipe.
 

GreggT

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The injector is not at the pump. It's setup for a deep well two line injector, there are two lines leaving the pump and separately exiting my basement wall.
 

GreggT

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Getting the pipe up out of the well could be, um, interesting. I do know people with wetsuits fortunately.

One other thought is to try to convert to shallow well single pipe so that I could put the check valve in the basement and avoid getting into the well. I would close off the send pipe to the injector (wherever that is). Any reason this wouldn't work?
 

Reach4

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If you convert to a submersible, one of the pipes can carry the wire out to the well. So if you block a pipe off, don't fill it with concrete or some other thing that would prevent you from using the pipe as an electrical conduit.

Turn off the valve after the pressure tank that shuts off water to the house. See if the cycling stops. If it does, look for a leak in the house system. I understand that it seems unlikely, but it is an easy test.
 

GreggT

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If I do a submersible, it will be a whole new install tied into the garage water (which I can feed back to the house). I'm not going to screw with buried mystery piping involving a missing injector.

I've already done the house check as you describe, no leak there.

To convert to single hose, I would plug the end of the current send hose at the pump end, then attach the existing draw hose to the shallow injector at the pump. The potential problem is that the single draw hose would be drawing through the now useless injector at the foot valve end.
 
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GreggT

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My son climbed into the well on Saturday, but was unable to disconnect any of the piping, so if we're going to put a check valve in the well, it will require cutting off the pipe and reattaching with a compression fitting or SharkBite.

Before I do that, I'm going to attempt the conversion to a shallow well configuration.
 

GreggT

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Well at this point I've ruled out everything I have access to, so unfortunately it appears to be either a failed buried pipe or (buried) injector. Sorry for not posting pictures.

I tried a shallow well injector, that was significantly worse, I couldn't get pressure. We got the pipe and footvalve out of the well, the footvalve was failed so I replaced it, but it didn't stop the slow leak from the pump back towards the well, which is exactly what it was doing when I started this whole process (at least it's consistent). So I've given up on trying to make the existing piping to the well work. While I probably could get to the buried injector, it would be major effort, as it's about 5' below the concrete, and 4-5' from the edge of the garage, and below the water line in the well to boot.

I will think about installing a jet pump in the garage near the well with a shallow well configuration (turns out the well is only ~15' deep), and figuring out how to run new pipe across the garage floor and into the well. I'm thinking cutting a trench in the cement is the most straight-forward approach, though I'm not sure how far down the rebar is. From there I will backfeed the house.

One issue with that approach is that the garage is at risk of freezing if the power is out. The other option is to run a new trench from the house to the well, so while not quite as bad as digging up the old injector, would still be a major effort as the house entrance point is pretty busy with another water line and multiple buried power lines. And it's a thick fieldstone foundation that is pretty brutal to get through. At the garage end I'd need to go down 4' and then about 4' under the slab to get to the well. But this configuration, with the pump in the house basement, is much preferred. If I got that route, I think I'll get a professional involved. I should probably do that anyways.

Thanks again to Cary and the group for your help and thoughts.

- Gregg
 

GreggT

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My drilled well has turned into a mudfest, we get about one shower before the filters are clogged, so I can't put off the dug well any longer. Today I started the install of a jet pump in the garage. I'm just going to run the line over the floor and into the manhole cover for now, I'll worry about burying it the concrete at some other point in time.
 
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