Weil McLain ECO 110 failed - I could use some help

[Alternety]

I have been without heat for more than two weeks. It is really annoying. My wife is getting real annoyed with the snow blower in the living room.

Configuration is a boiler driving one hot water tank with circulator, and three circulators for the house. In floor heating, circulator on initial loop, buffer tank, and the rest of the system. Everything is just fine. After I provide a useless, but potentially amusing story, I get to the question at the bottom.

The boiler stopped working. I heard noise and came down to watch it do cycle after cycle just for the DHW. I was not able to find the issue. I probed a bunch of wires and could not find anything. I thought I would use another controller. Another of my stupid pet tricks. When I bought the ECO I thought I was buying an Evergreen, and I bought a spare set of everything for the EVG (which is available, if anyone is interested). Of course it was not particularly useful when I needed it. However, I tried anyway. I think it would have worked internally, except for a different 5 pin connector that I could not work around without significant cutting things up. I had been trying to get my installer, I finally got him to come out. He was quite a distance away on a job with no cell service. Minutes before starting to phone various area shops he came back.

We spent time and found one of the top boiler sensors that appeared to have failed. Six days later we got the parts and it changed nothing. I am now waiting for a full set of ECO parts. Express shipping from the East.

The installer and I are still trying to identify what is going on. The display panel is terrible. We can barely read much of the information. I never fooled around with the display so I did not know how awful it was. May be it is broken. The controller knows it has DHW and boiler connected. But it does not work. We are quite unable to do anything useful. I can make no sense most of the various displays and controls. And today I saw a slow drip from the condenser drain. Has not supplied heat in over 3 week. I may have a new boiler in the air.

OK - the point. Is there any place to get my hands on an understandable set of information that is supposed to be able to control the system. We have been unable to decipher the processes and changes. There really should be a manual that is actually understandable without stupid pet tricks. The controller could be working; but we have no idea how or why.

A understandable manual would be really really nice.

 

[Fitter30]

Series 1
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAAegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw2-4XB5AOh8nN0C7r59Oy4Z
Series 2
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjABegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0unAGroSkt5zbBT_M7Pfe8
These might help you out. Customer service # 1 (800) 368-2492

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Alternety]

Thanks. I have the manuals. I am just not able to follow the recipe.

Working with the screen is not suitable to my old eyes. And is not really easy for my installer. Simply turning on the room light is enough to make things very difficult. The change in colors is a disaster. How could someone have really thought this was a good thing. I can't believe an engineer did this. I am an old engineer. I would have fought management to the death. A very small color line on one or more edges would be helpful; what they are doing is just dumb. The screen is very very difficult to read. The screen really really needs to have technology that is more in keeping with modern screen technology. Children's toys have better screens and controllers. These screens have to be 10 years old.

Still have not figured out what is wrong. Almost finishing off the 3rd week for a 52 degree house. I have agreed to buy a controller and another hideous display. Five days for the sensor that seemed to be the problem. The new attempt has been located (not easy to find stock other than having to go to the factory [weeks]. Now still waiting again for these parts that were supposed to be sent overnight. Not doing real well. Probably Santa needed for toys for under the tree.

This is not fun. Let us say wife is not happy.

 

[Fitter30]

Which manual are you using and does anything work?

 

[Alternety]

The ECO manual.

Nothing works. My boiler guy found a controller, and says the controller is out for delivery today. Screen not available for several weeks. I am not sure what impact that display may have if it is part of the problem.

There could well be a different problem. A couple of days ago I was staring at the boiler. Thinking about burning incense or some kind of food. But I don't know what boilers like.

I saw the system circulators run both DHW and heat. But no heat was available - boiler never ignites. It could be something inside internal boiler parts.

This long to find parts with no meaningful availability/support from the manufacture is not what I expect from a big company. Certainly there should be a better parts supply. Especially for a product that makes a home a freezer rather than a comfortable home. I have now been through 2 or 3 boiler chambers from my first boiler and the now the new boiler I bought to get a stainless steel boiler from the same source. The manufacture was very supportive with the first boiler. Aluminum was the problem. Overall, all of the boilers have kept my house well below comfort at one time. The current iteration has had around 52 degrees for at least 3 weeks.

I have to consider what I do next. We are rather old. My wife would never be able to deal with a failure. I am not so good either. I need a reliable source of functioning heat and hot water. I need to do some investigation when this is over.

 

[Alternety]

Yet more. We are having fun here. The boiler guy and I put in the new controller. It is simply a bunch of plug-in cables. Cables have all been checked end to end (for the second time) to insure integrity. No problems detected. Note that this is not a new installation. It is several years old.

Turned on power. Exactly the same results as we had from the existing controller. The only thing as yet not replaced is the display. This display has a significant lead time to purchase. Factory only. It has a simple cable connection to the controller. It continues to present error codes and stop the process. It would not make sense (to me) for that display to be an active control device.

When turned on, the boiler runs, but never ignites the boiler. I can not hear any arcing in the HV wire. The boiler runs for a while running the single DHW pump. After a while, the controller switches to the access point for the three circulators that run the rest of the system circulation. Just no heat provided. I do not have a simple tool to see if there is a fault in the high voltage wire to the igniter. I will see if I can make something to do some measurements.

The display sets these messages.
- Limit Open
- Status - LOCKOUT

It does not go beyond this screen.

My boiler guy is going to try getting some information from WM. It may not be a useful contact. I tried, but I really did not find WM's required information to ask for help unacceptable. And it was a "we will call sometime" offer.

I am now going into our fourth week of freezing. Soon we can leave the freezer door open. My wife is seriously sick and she has two rooms to live in. A bedroom and her office. With one electric heater in each.

I would also appreciate any suggestions for more reliable and supported boiler. I really really do not want to go that route; but I can not keep living this way.

If anyone would like to participate; I can really really use assistance.

 

[Fitter30]

On the board p13 plug any wires on the plug? P13 is for external limits. Has all the sensors been ohmed out. 24 volt fuse good? Whats your zip code?

 

[JohnCT]

The manual has extensive troubleshooting:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyh...l McLain-383-800-003-Install Instructions.pdf

..and also has initial installation startup checks. Even though it ran once, sometimes checking off the startup list can reveal something that was working but no longer is. It does sound like a bad sensor. Supposedly, it has a lockout history that can be accessed, assuming the display screen of course is functional (I know you said it was tough to read).

I would see if I could beg or borrow some more electric heaters for your wife. 50F is miserable to live in and not healthy for us older folks.

John

 

[Alternety]

fitter - I have the new controller installed. It did not come with P13 installed. Neither did the original. The manual shows a couple of stubs, but I do not believe they were ever there. My guy checked all the wires and devices in the boiler.

The only thing remaining we can think that may be the problem is the display. The behaviour of the display operates strangely enough to be the problem. But I do not have a good understanding.

I am going to try to find something in the external controllers.

When last trying to use it, I let it go through a cycle for DHW and then one for heat. The DHW runs, then after a while, the heat runs. But nothing ever causes the boiler internals ever activates.

Something is blocking ignition of the burner. I am probably going to attempt to dissemble the boiler. There may be a problem that is not observable.


Just another point: My boiler guy is just incredible. He spent hours in my boiler room. Spent significant time to get a replacement controller overnighted after finding one. Then he came from his house again (20 miles) with a seriously sick wife he bundled in his work truck because he needed to protect her while he worked. With my sick wife upstairs. This guy needs some recognition if there is such a thing!

JohnCT - I have a heater in the wife's bedroom and one in her office (e.g., TV/knitting/feeding). She refused to accept the heaters until the end of the first two weeks; eventual available reason - it might catch fire. They are safe low temperature devices. She has very significant health issues. Two blankets and a comforter with the heater. Me; one light blanket and a comforter. But I did military service - piece of cake.

 

[Fitter30]

I know your boiler guy is doing his best just trying to over the basics. With a faulty display or hard to read it's like driving blind. Without a display unless someone could plug a laptop into the board it's only a guess.

 

[Alternety]

fitter 30 - you seem to understand the P13 thing


Note that the controller currently installed is a new board. I do not think the original controller is really broken - just messing with me.

So far the issue seems to be around the 4 pin square for connection the LWC and the orange connector ( P13) on the bottom edge of the board. The orange connector has four pins is a row in the socket. The pins need something to be connected to make the system work.

The manual shows 2 jumpers to P13. The manual says to remove 1 and 2 and/or 3 and 4 if factory jumpers are removed. I do not believe there was ever jumpers attached. The new controller also has no jumpers on those pins. There is a connection for the LWC, on P12. This is a new connection. There was not an external LWC attached previously. Removing the new LWC sensor does not fix anything.

NEW: Because I accidentally picked up an open board, it turned out to be the one I tried to use on the 110 and it refuses to operate in a different boiler, BUT - that controller has the orange P13 plugs WITH the connector. I can now put wires in the 4 pins. I am still reluctant to turn both connections on. The documentation seems to say "one or the other".

Text for P13:

Factory jumpers - remove if using limits. Normal seems to be none in P13. The following is the use of the two pin sets for P13.

1 & 2 - additional limits if used (will require manual reset)
3 & 4 - additional limits if used (will automatically reset)

I don't really understand what does things here. Why would I try to use both the connections. It appears that hey each have one task. Not concurrent.

Here is more text for P13:

Connect additional limits (if used) between terminals P13-1 and P13-2 if the boiler control module is to manual reset on limit action. Connect Between terminals P13 - 3 and P13 - 4 for automatic reset. Remove jumper across terminals used. This appears to be to be "one or the other". Not both. I am just not understanding the WM jargon.

I have had an additional input from someone else helping me. What he said is jumper both P13 1 & 2 and P13 3 & 4 concurrently. This just feels wrong. It would have both manual and automatic active at the same time.

More jabbering here than I really wanted to do; but you are getting it all. I did have fun yesterday working on this. First, wind and cold, rain squalls, sleet, ice, snow. Then to round things off - we lost power. I just went to bed in the 52 degree house.

Long and tedious - please explain to me what I should be doing.

 

[Fitter30]

P13 controls can come two ways manual reset or automatic like a temperature control ( off at 200* on at 160*). Wouldn't want a limit cycling the unit on & off you want it to lock out till someone looks at it. Diagram shows factory jumpers on p13 1-2 , 3-4, p12 jumper 3-4