Wax Versus Non-Wax Toilet Seals

[Navrik]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this website and wondering how the Community thought about Toilet Seals.

If costs were not an issue, and based solely on performance and reliability, which type of Toilet Seal would you recommend when installing a Toilet?



1) Tradition Wax

2) Tradition Wax WITH Funnel


---- Wax Rings:

3) Fluid Master Toilet Seal

4) Korky Brand Seal

5) Sani Seal

6) Fernco Non Wax Gaskets

 

[Gary Swart]

Let's see if we can simplify this a bit. Wax vs waxless: either works just fine. Waxless allows for the toilet to be removed and reset without changing seals. Wax rings can not be reused, so if you don't set the toilet square and try to shift it, the wax will likely not seal. Plastic horns only if you need 2 rings. If so, then the hornless ring goes on first, the horned on top of that. Ease of use? Pretty much a toss up IMHO, neither require a college degree. Just always put the ring on the flange then set the toilet. Directions on the packaging suggests the ring on the toilet then set, but plumber never do that. Tip: Use a second pair of nuts on the flange bolts to hold them in place and upright. This will really help get the toilet positioned exactly right.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Flapper]

Use conventional wax ring if the flange is installed properly and the toilet can be completely secured. Use two wax rings or a thick wax ring if the flange is lower than it is supposed to be, and the toilet can be secured. Use a waxless seal if the toilet cannot be secured perfectly, and it wobbles around.

Wax rings are one-time use so if you screw up, you need to replace it. However, regular wax rings are so cheap ($1-$2) that you can have many attempts to install the toilet until you paid the same amount for a waxless ring ($9-$13)
Waxless rings can be reinstalled and can handle a loose toilet. Use a waxless ring if you are going to be reseating the toilet hundreds of times.

There are also "reinforced" wax rings but I don't know much about them and I don't know if they are better. I think they have plastic reinforcement inside. I've heard bad things about them, like if the toilet sits too close to the flange, the wax will be squished down to the bone (the reinforcement) so the toilet will be sitting on solid plastic... or something like that. I don't know of any benefit of reinforced wax rings.

 

[Flapper]

Also most toilets should come with a wax ring so just use that... and if you screw up then get a new wax ring or a waxless ring. I suggest the basic wax if it is appropriate, because you are likely to get it right the second time, and you save a good $10.

 

[Flapper]

If costs were not an issue, and based solely on performance and reliability, which type of Toilet Seal would you recommend when installing a Toilet?

Well if costs were not an issue, then I'll chose a waxless of course, more specifically, Sani Seal.
Usually costs are an issue so I'd get a wax ring (unless the toilet is loose). Nobody has infinite money.

 

[Flapper]

There's also Danco's super-fancy futuristic space-age wax ring:

 

[Jadnashua]

A wax ring, properly installed, will outlast you. In most cases, unless you remodel often and want to paint behind the toilet, there is little reason to remove the thing. Nobody knows how long the plastics will last. From a cost/benefit viewpoint, I don't think you can beat wax. Now, if you've got a dog of a toilet, and need to remove it to fix clogs, a waxless may win in the end, and you'd see if it is degrading, and could replace it during that maintenance.

 

[Terry]

95% of the time in the Seattle area, the flange is lower than the finished flooring. The easy fix is two wax rings stacked, and the bowl set down over that. I use one regular wax ring, and then a horn wax over that, then the bowl drops down.

Some of the rubber seals on the market are a single thickness which may not work unless the flange is just the right height.
Some rubber seals require a new clean bowl to adhere the glue to the bottom of the bowl. If there is wax from a previous install it may not work.

The height of the flange makes a lot of difference in what can be used.

The flange is lower than the floor, two wax rings.

 

[Jechow]

How many inches does the wax ring need to be above the floor? Does it depend? If it does then how would you know that you have a thick enough of a wax ring?

 

[Gary Swart]

Let's work backward on this. When properly installed, the flange sets on top of the finished floor. With the flange in that position, a regular thickness of wax ring is all that is needed. Now, that the ideal install. But in the real world sometimes the flange may set below the finished floor. That's what Terry is referring to. There may be reasons for this, but unimportant for this discussion. The answer to your question then is it just depends on how far the flange is below the finished floor. If the flooring was replaced after the flange was set using thick tile, it could be you'd need a couple of rings. However, if the new floor was just a new layer of vinyl tile, perhaps just a supersized wax ring would be enough. The distance above the floor will not be "inches". It has to be high enough that the horn on the base of the toilet will compress the wax to make the seal. Just remember that when the flange is set on top of the finished floor, a standard ring is enough. So, if your flange is lower that the top of the floor, you need that much more wax ring thickness. Probably better to have 1/4" too much than not enough, and remember rings come in several thicknesses.

 

[Reach4]

How many inches does the wax ring need to be above the floor? Does it depend? If it does then how would you know that you have a thick enough of a wax ring?

I would think 1-1/4 inches would cover most situations. I am not a pro, but that is my estimate.

 

[Jadnashua]

When you set the toilet, if you don't get some resistance as you smush the toilet down onto the wax, you don't have enough! You can measure the depth of the individual horn of your toilet...place a straightedge across it, then measure how deep to the top of the bowl where the wax will go. Compare that to your wax ring. The reason why Terry suggests two wax rings when low with the top one being with a horn, is that the horn helps to line the two rings up and prevents any excess from mushrooming into the opening of the toilet discharge. Having a regular wax ring on the bottom helps to ensure you don't end up with only the plastic trying to make the seal, verses the wax if the tolerance is too close or the funnel (horn) collapsing into the neck of a less than ideal toilet flange, creating a blockage.

 

[Rayh78]

I still could never figure this out.
I decided to try them out. New AS cadet 3 toilet on a PVC flange that sit on top of the floor. Could not get any of the three to work. They were just too thick.
Tried a Saniseal, Fluidmaster (without the spacer) and a Danco, none would work. Could not push the toilet down to the floor. It was rocking on these seals.
I was surprised by this and even called AS tech support. They said they did not know of any waxless seal that would work with their toliets.

So at least with American Standard toilets they can only work if the flange is below the floor.

 

[Navrik]

Hey Everyone,
Thank you, these are great answers from the community

--- 1) Using 2 wax rings when the flange is slightly below and one when the flange is slightly above the floor - but what about if the flange is Even to the floor?

What do most people use in this circumstance?


--- 2) For wax less Sani Seal, does anyone have any experience on the longterm durability of it?
I've read in several places that it's external surface is prone to rapid wear and pulls off from the sheer weight of the toilet above it - when the outer layer is worn off, the exposed inner layer apparently becomes a sponge that soaks up water and makes a mess.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...X&ved=0ahUKEwjAwvDdqrfNAhVX42MKHRj6DmUQvCQIew

---- 3) What are people's opinions on Fluid Master Non-Wax Seals?

It seems like a reasonable because it looks solid and might not be prone to Early degradation.

3.5) Yes, Wax seals have the history because they have been used for longer and are more widespread due to their cheapness, but it seems wax apparently are prone to leakage from toilet plunging, higher tempurature or excessive movement.

Whereas, apparently Non wax may not have those problems that plague wax seals?

---- 4) Lastly, does anyone have any opinions on those Caroma toilets with those large 3.5" - 4" toilet horns and trapway?
Most Seals (Wax and Non-Wax) that have the attached funnels seem to EIther:
A) Constrict the passageway because they are too small (around 2 - 3") OR,
B) They can possibly also help direct the wastes from the larger 3.5-4" trapway/toilet horn to the smaller diameter drain pipe (3")
Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Terry]

The Caroma 305 bowl has a 3" trapway.
The Caroma 270 has the 4". Which is a little odd in that most plumbing in the US is 3" for toilets.
Flanges are either 4" or 4" x 3".
Most other modern toilets have a trapway of around 2".
Of the waxless, the Sani-Seal is the easiest to install. Time will tell on whether it becomes a sponge or not.
I'm still installing with wax, good closet bolts, shims when needed, and clear cauling around most of the bowl. My stuff doesn't move.

 

[Flapper]

3.5) Yes, Wax seals have the history because they have been used for longer and are more widespread due to their cheapness, but it seems wax apparently are prone to leakage from toilet plunging, higher tempurature or excessive movement.

The only thing you should worry about is the movement; if the toilet is at all loose then you must use waxless. If the toilet is well secured and does not budge (which it should be) then wax is good.

 

[Larry S]

...--- 1) Using 2 wax rings when the flange is slightly below and one when the flange is slightly above the floor - but what about if the flange is Even to the floor?

What do most people use in this circumstance?...

When I installed my new toilet (Toto Entrada) after a remodel, and new tile floor, the ring was roughly even with the floor although not completely level with it. One side was 1/4" above floor one side slightly lower. I was thinking of using the Fluidmaster non-wax ring but called Fluidmaster support to get their recommendation. They told me to use a single extra thick ring. The thick rings sold at the stores near me were all "reinforced" with the horns. I used that and everything is working just fine.

I think us DIYers tend to overanalyze this simple area since there are so many options being marketed.

I think it is far more important to make sure the toilet is stable by using shims so it doesn't rock or move once set. Following advice on this forum I used a pack of composite shims sold for door installation. before applying the ring I set my toilet in place and used the shims to make it stable and level. I taped the ships in place with masking tape. Then lifted the bowl, put the ring on, and reset and bolted it down. The adjusted the shims as necessary and cut the excess off. This procedure worked a lot better than other things I've done in the past to stabilize a toilet.

 

[Jambo]

For rear discharge (rear outlet) toilets, my plumber said go with the neoprene ring. Wax will sag and the seal will be broken. That’s why mine was leaking