Wax versus no-wax rings

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Shubox56

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And how does the Entrada stack up against the Kohler K-5481-0 (Highline round)?

Living in Chicago and not far from Kohler, I have grown up thinking they are some of the best products on the market.
 

Reach4

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The Entrada round will save about an inch in front vs Highline round, which is probably why you are using the round.
 

Shubox56

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Yep, round. I would prefer the elongated version, but not sure if it will be to big for the space. From wall to wall, it's 59", so a 30" elongated toilet would give me roughly 29" in front of the toilet which sits between the vanity and tub. The width between the vanity and tub is around 30 to 32 inches (from memory)
 

Jadnashua

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IMHO, Kohler makes some products that look great. Some of them are really hard to install as the specs call for extremely tight tolerances. AN example, one shower wall spray's supply line had to be within 1/16" depth when tiling around it...that's really hard to attain. They are severely infected with the NIH (not invented here) syndrom...as a result, they try to reinvent the wheel a bunch of times. This does not always work! Should you decide you want one of their products, make sure to stash away the instructions and parts list, and you may have trouble finding repair parts at the local stores as they change things often. Their parts book is more like a phone book, so most places won't try to stock many of their parts. They also outsource some of their products, having them made in China, so while it is a US company, at least some of their stuff is made elsewhere.

On toilets, if you can view a sample, either from a picture, or in person, unless it has a hidden trapway, take a look at it from the side and note the shape and direction of where the outlet is pointed and how it got there. On a Toto, they route that waste in a nice curve so at the outlet, it is pointed down into the drain. On many others, there's a convoluted route, or they try to make the turn to the outlet at nearly 90-degrees which both slows it down, and may cause a clog if the stool is longer or harder than norm. Waste likes smooth turns to flow well without slowing.
 

Shubox56

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Good stuff! Thanks for the useful info.

So Toto is easier to install and maintain? Just an overall better designed product?
 

Jadnashua

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When it comes to toilets, I'm not sure you'll notice a difference between the generally available brands in installation. A Toto with a unifit adapter isn't hard, but a bit more involved to install than just bolting the toilet to the flange. If you can read and follow instructions, it's easy. Since you need to anchor the adapter to the floor, you may need a drill compatible with the flor material. Still, that's not a big deal. As water efficiency rules get tighter, sometimes the manufacturers will move to new fill valves or flush valves...those may or may not be easier to maintain or get parts for...so, that sort of depends. Most of Kohler's innards are unique to Kohler. Most of Toto's innards are more generic (but customized), and easier to find replacement parts for. Finding a suitable generic replacement part is usually easier for Toto than for Kohler.

Toto is an international company with factories in numerous places around the world. They do have a big factory in Georgia where many of the toilets sold in the USA are sourced, but that's not a guarantee. Their production methods are somewhat unique. Most companies use a fairly liquid clay in their molds...a slight variation in the water content or the exact mixture of the clay, or how long it sits prior to pouring out the excess can mean a slight variation in the size. Toto uses a much stiffer clay that is more injected into the molds rather than poured, so it has better control and consistency. From a world-wide volume standpoint, Toto makes Kohler look more like a country store than a superstore.
 

Shubox56

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Anchor to the floor? I'm running a floating. That doesn't sound like something I'll consider.
 

Shubox56

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I just watched a Entrada install vid. I don't think it's a unifit type toilet. Seems to be a standard install.
 

Jadnashua

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Only some very specific Toto toilets use the unifit adapter...the rest are more conventional and just attach to the toilet flange (well, some of the Aquia need some additional anchors installed, but I think that's the only other one).
 

Shubox56

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So back on topic for this thread. Question: what prevents toilet manufacturers from reworking the well of a toilet to include a PVC or ABS threaded male nipple to replace the horn? This to allow an installer to screw on a threaded female pipe that could be cut to length in the field based on flange depth. This wouldn't replace the wax ring to seal sewer gas, but would resolve the flange depth issue.
 

Shubox56

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Haven't purchased the toilet yet, but did get my Sani seal. Seems decent, but not certain exactly what the material is or the expected longevity. I definitely like the idea. The top of the gasket is 1.1875" above the finished floor. Out of curiosity, what is the well depth on the average toilet?
 

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Reach4

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img_4.jpg

If I understand your question, I would think about an inch. Maybe 7/8. Maybe 3/4.
toilets-00.jpg
 
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Shubox56

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Yes, you got it right. So at 1.1875, I'll have somewhere in the neighborhood of . 1875 to .4375 compression.
 
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