Installed new toilet after putting down new floor. Used provided wax seal, no sleeve. It leaked. Got new jumbo wax ring with sleeve. It's leaking. I have almost "1/4 from flange to floor. I see wax compressed through the bolt holes. Any ideas? Thanks.
Wax Ring Leaking
- Thread starter Fishin
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
It is possible that your closet flange is not taking water fast enough. A wax ring should not have to deal with a clogged line. Plunging a toilet with a clogged line will make a lot of pressure, and it will probably blow out the wax seal.
The main purpose of the wax ring is to block gas. I used to think that if you had no wax at all, you would be unlikely to get water leakage. I was corrected on that. I still think that a fair amount of toilets would not leak water if there were no wax.
If you get rocking, that will mess up a wax seal. You don't want to expand wax once it is compressed. Shims prevent rocking. They should be placed before the toilet is dropped on the wax.
Are you saying that the top of the closet flange is 1/4 inch below the floor surface? A waxless seal may be a good idea for somebody less practiced.
The main purpose of the wax ring is to block gas. I used to think that if you had no wax at all, you would be unlikely to get water leakage. I was corrected on that. I still think that a fair amount of toilets would not leak water if there were no wax.
If you get rocking, that will mess up a wax seal. You don't want to expand wax once it is compressed. Shims prevent rocking. They should be placed before the toilet is dropped on the wax.
Are you saying that the top of the closet flange is 1/4 inch below the floor surface? A waxless seal may be a good idea for somebody less practiced.
Last edited:
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
Yes, flange is "1/4 below the top of the floor. Thanks.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
As already mentioned, if the toilet can rock after installation, it will break the seal. There's a sticky at the top that discusses how to install a toilet.
Given the recess, you may need two wax rings stacked. Ideally, the flange would sit on top of the finished flooring, and be tightly anchored through it into the subfloor. When it's not, you'll need more wax to fill up the gap.
If the toilet is a 2-piece, it could be leaking between the tank and the bowl...or, you may actually have a defective toilet.
Given the recess, you may need two wax rings stacked. Ideally, the flange would sit on top of the finished flooring, and be tightly anchored through it into the subfloor. When it's not, you'll need more wax to fill up the gap.
If the toilet is a 2-piece, it could be leaking between the tank and the bowl...or, you may actually have a defective toilet.
Last edited by a moderator:
In the rear of toilet. I'm SURE it is from the wax ring and not tank or supply line. I now plan to add an additional toilet flange then reinstall. Although the wax sits above the floor, I question if enough wax is being compressed.
I have a hard time seeing how you got the leak with the Danco Perfect Seal Wax Ring (DPS). I have never used one, but it seems useful. That unit has 4 tabs on it. Two go on the closet bolts. It seems to me that in some cases, the other two tabs could be used to hold the DPS down. Looking through the documentation makes me wonder how the wax gets squished and held down. I guess it squishes due to the pressure from above around the horn of the toilet, or you push it down and the pressure from above maintains. Did it seem that the wax squished much as you pressed down? Did you use the blue ring?
When does the leak appear? For example, would you say
- water came out the back after the first flush after installing the DPS, and on each subsequent flush?
- water came out on the next flush after flushing solids
- water comes out at seemingly random times
- water comes out more when you use the plunger
Last edited:
Saniseal may be the solution. I’ve used them many times and normally they work great. You can even stack 2 of them if needed. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Toilet-Gasket-Flexible-Waxless-Seal-Universal-Fit-BL01/203564758
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
You can get an idea of how tall the wax needs to be next time you pull the toilet...put a straight-edge across the bottom and measure up into the well around the horn. When you set the toilet down on the wax, you should have to push on it to mold the wax to make the seal. If there's little resistance, you have a problem. IF the flange is not level, that can increase the amount of wax needed. If you stack two wax rings, use one with a horn on top and a plain one on the bottom. The horn then helps to prevent the bottom wax from being pushed into the opening and keeps the two aligned.
You don't get two chances with wax...you can only press down, you can't lift or try to move it. The wax isn't a spring, you'll leave gaps. Same thing if the toilet rocks...when one side goes down, it compresses the wax, and when it rocks back, there's a gap.
Typically, the horn of the toilet directs the waste down the center of the drain. Usually, the only time you get a leak there is if the thing is misaligned, or there's a backup. While the wax should prevent waste leaking, it's normal job is to prevent sewer gases leaking out.
It's still possible that the toilet is defective and it won't matter what you do with the seal...it will still leak.
You don't get two chances with wax...you can only press down, you can't lift or try to move it. The wax isn't a spring, you'll leave gaps. Same thing if the toilet rocks...when one side goes down, it compresses the wax, and when it rocks back, there's a gap.
Typically, the horn of the toilet directs the waste down the center of the drain. Usually, the only time you get a leak there is if the thing is misaligned, or there's a backup. While the wax should prevent waste leaking, it's normal job is to prevent sewer gases leaking out.
It's still possible that the toilet is defective and it won't matter what you do with the seal...it will still leak.
Very little water, in the back of the toilet , on the floor. Water showed about 12 hrs. after test flushing. I haven't pulled toilet back up to look at possible cause of failure. I'm quite certain there is no blockage. Thanks.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Is your tank sweating?
Nope, no sweat at all. Last light I disassembled and inspected toilet flange. The front quarter and back quarter of the flange are about a "1/16 or lower than the rest of the flange. I could see this and I could definitley feel it. In other words, the flange on the toilet is not the same height all the way around.
I added a "1/4 pvc toilet flange to the existing flange and reinstalled toilet with a sleeved wax ring. It's been 24 hrs and so far so good.
I added a "1/4 pvc toilet flange to the existing flange and reinstalled toilet with a sleeved wax ring. It's been 24 hrs and so far so good.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
That small amount normally wouldn't be an issue IF the flange was installed on top of the finished floor. WHen it's recessed, you often need a thicker wax ring or rings to make the seal. It's still a bit unusual that it leaked, regardless, as the toilet outlet directs the flow down. Now, on many toilet designs, they try to make a sharp 90-degree bend, so some of it will still be going sideways, and those would be more likely to splash around the flange and leak if there's a gap anywhere. The better designed toilets turn the outlet and by the time it gets to the end, it's pointing essentially down, rather than trying to do that quite abruptly.
Well it's been about a week, so far so good. To recap, I put down a new floor and toilet flange ended up not quite a "1/4 below the floor. Two wax rings, one just wax, one with the flange, both leaked. I then tried ?perfect Seal by Danco. It leaked. The concept of this seal seem fool proof but it leaked. Went to HD and got a plain old "1/4 flange shim. I installed this using caulk on the underside of this flange and anchored it just using the flange bolts and using nuts to snug up the flange bolts sealing the flange shim to the original toilet flange. I then installed toilet using a flanged wax ring and tightened bolts. So far so good. I do intend to look under the house to confirm no leaks. Thanks for all your inputs!
Similar threads
