Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Dave, you said "See my thread below with quote my water was just tested". I interpreted that to mean a water report was included within the quote PDF document.
Water Treatment Pressure Drop
- Thread starter davehall83
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davehall83
New Member
there was it was only ph, hardness and iron
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davehall83
New Member
can a back flow preventer be used as a vacuum breaker?
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
No. totally different pieces of equipment.
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
Even if the booster does not collapse the media tank, it could crush the bottom basket which would create a significant flow restriction.
davehall83
New Member
So that says it then no booster pump then. So i noticed my water treatment company that installed this originally put a 7GPM check valve before the ultrafilter and a 10GPM check valve after then the pressure reducing valve to the booster pump. Could those devices possibly saved my water treatment or i guess it could be crushed its been running this way since 2016. The water treatment company that went under sold to culligan so of course all my warranties are null and void and i have no way to sue them. So they are coming out thursday to check the system and see what it is and bring the "manager" as well. I can only figure what this means, they come out say yeap its done but here we want to sell you the culligan proprietary solution. The well company that quoted me waived all labor because they felt bad and to their respect it was honorable but i know those prices i was given are marked up big time.
I don't see that.
No booster pump after the filtering, unless you supplement that with a vacuum breaker to prevent the potential tank collapse.
A vacuum breaker admits air. Some backflow presenters admit air, but the ones for hoses have a tendency to leak. SThe term backflow preventer is not very specific. The vacuum breakers often used with upper story water heaters are readily available.
Catherine S
New Member
I don’t understand how a booster pump after the softener could possibly help improve water flow and pressure when there is not adequate flow through the softener. As you are making adjustments — it might be possible to add some pressure gauges (question for the experts — not sure how much additional pressure drop would occur from the gauges), those would help monitor the system and pinpoint issues.
good luck!
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
Not sure I understand. You have the same setup and don't see that or you disagree?
The force exerted on the bottom basket increases when there is a large pressure differential across the equipment which was the reason the booster pump was installed to begin with. The pressure drop is a combined friction loss of all components in series. The lower basket is near the end of the series resistors so likely to see more differential than any component after it.
davehall83
New Member
So let me ask this a vacuum breaker resolves any issues of fouling the filtration equipment correct? Then i can use a pump after the equipment? Heres my idea:
Well Pump Constant Pressure Pump 18GPM to 25 GPM > Well Pump pressure tank 85 gallon > Acid Neutralizer > Water Softener > Big Blue 20" Housing w 25 MIC filter > Big Blue 20" Housing w Iron Reduction Filter > Big Blue 20" Housing w 1 MIC filter > 85 Gallon Pressure tank (second tank for filtered water > Vacuum Breaker > Pressure Reducing Valve (to bring PSI down to 38 to start booster pump) > Franklin Electric Inline 400 Booster Pump > Pressure Reducing Valve (to control pressure from booster pump> 1.5 Gal pressure tank for booster pump expansion tank > House fixtures.
Does this sound legitimate?
I don't have a booster pump. What I don't see is how a booster pump after a softener or backwashing filter crushes a bottom basket.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
If the acid neutralizer media has hardened so as to cause a large flow restriction through the media, locating a booster pump after the media will result in negative pressure below the media. That negative pressure will increase the pull-down force on the media and the negative pressure inside the riser tube and bottom basket will increase the inward force within both which may result in the failure of at least those components.
Locating a booster pump after the filtration equipment is an attempt to address a symptom instead of dealing with the cause of the problem.
A big blue cartridge filter is not appropriate treatment method for iron reduction. A 1-micron cartridge filter is likely a cause for at least some of the flow restriction issues.
Locating a booster pump after the filtration equipment is an attempt to address a symptom instead of dealing with the cause of the problem.
A big blue cartridge filter is not appropriate treatment method for iron reduction. A 1-micron cartridge filter is likely a cause for at least some of the flow restriction issues.
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davehall83
New Member
Since i had much better water pressure with the inline booster pump installed (franklin electric inline 400) i want to put it back in. You mentioned vacuum breaker, i see a bunch out there and i bought one to install however, i am concerned about this thing. Apparently it will leak some water from the point where the air break occurs and it needs to be near a drain so that has me worried about how much water and how often this might happen? Also is this the right device you are suggesting? If so i plan to put it 12" above the pump level like it says in the instructions see the link below for specs and what i purchased. Will this resolve the issue of crushing my tanks? Or can i use a double check valve instead? The reason i mention double check valve is because the risk of property damage with the vacuum breaker that thing does emit water out of the cap....
https://www.ferguson.com/product/zu...ker-w420xlg/_/R-4238922?searchKeyWord=w420xlg
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You could use something like https://www.ferguson.com/product/wa...lve-wlfn36m1f/_/R-3920150?searchKeyWord=lfn36 unless the two ports or 1 inch thread would make it easier for you.
davehall83
New Member
Is that basically the same as the one i bought https://www.ferguson.com/product/zu...ker-w420xlg/_/R-4238922?searchKeyWord=w420xlg ?
What we were planning to do is put the breaker right before the pump after the filtration so Neutralizer > Softener > Big blue housing > 86 gallon retention tank > vacuum breaker > Boost pump. The idea isn't flow here its more so just getting more pressure like i had before. I have the flow just need pressure.
I guess i am worried that this vacuum breaker will leak water out of the top quite often or will it? We could plumb it over my slop sink in the basement which is next to it which would fix that problem but i dont want to create a hazard by having water go everywhere either from the vacuum breaker. The one you showed me is the same thing right?
One other vacuum breaker i saw was this one, its a spill resistant vacuum breaker but one cavet to installing them is this: " They must not be installed where backpressure may occur." i guess that is the issue we are trying to prevent is backpressure right?
https://www.zurn.com/media-library/web_documents/pdfs/flyers/zmktg480-15-pdf.aspx
And by no means am i trying to get around my water treatment issues, i just dont want to spend 10K right now but i am looking to purchase my own equipment but i am having someone come out and see about rebeding the neutralizer and resin in the softener and go over the whole system however they will have no idea what a vacuum breaker is or even this design so i am still stuck on this. Anyone can install stuff but its up to me to decide with everyones help here what makes sense and what will work which is why this is the final step of getting my booster pump back in service to make sure i install the vacuum breaker or check valve but i cant risk water damage from one so thats what stopped me on this to make sure it doesn't shoot water everywhere
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ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
Interesting solution, use a ball check on a tee, 1/2" should be fine, these break with almost no negative pressure. You can also attach a tube to the other side and run it to a drain. https://www.mcmaster.com/4721k14
davehall83
New Member
So what your saying is instead of using a vacuum breaker, use a check valve? I have this one if this will do the same thing? https://www.ferguson.com/product/wa...f7ru22fd/_/R-4525740?searchKeyWord=wlf7ru22fd
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
I would not recommend a double check as a vacuum break. A vacuum break is really nothing more than a check valve but usually with a very low breaking point. Will it work, probably. I prefer likely to probably.
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