Water Test Results / Treatment Recommendations?

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by gedmeyer, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    I had my water tested last summer when we purchased our house. Could some of you pro's recommend a decent treatment system?

    -Well is 80-100 ft.
    -Well pump and supply line to house was replaced after this test (original supply line was galvanized, if it matters).
    -House was minimally occupied at time of testing (not much water use)
    -Cost and efficient water usage are preferred.
    -House on edge of suburbia. Some farms nearby.
    - water table is generally high

    Thanks!

    water test.JPG
     
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Simple to treat for the basics. You have high turbidity, some iron/manganese and hardness. This test is not very scomprehensive but it gives us a good idea of some of the problems.

    I would recommend a Katalox Light system and softener. The KL system will usually take care of the turbidity, iron, manganese. Softener will be redundant for the manganese iron and will take care of hardness.
     
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  4. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    Should I retest my well considering that it wasn't being used regularly when the test was performed? Also, could the 100' of galvanized piping impact the results at all? This was all replaced since the test. The toilet gets an orange-ish stain after about a week. The water does not seem to have an odor.

    What are the key decision points in system design?
     
  5. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    System design is based on the contaminants and water quality you desire.

    We have many customers that want to remove the "bad" stuff from all of their water, others just want to remove it from the drinking water.

    It is important to not have contaminants that are dangerous from skin contact or water that will damage your plumbing and plumbing components.

    It is common to remove iron, manganese and odor since these are annoyances. Hardness is also commonly reduced since it causes its own unique problems. Things like arsenic can be removed from all the water but is usually only removed from drinking water.

    I would recommend a new test if your budget allows. Testing should be done every year or so since you are your own municipality. You should also have some basic tests on hand for testing. TDS meter, hardness, temperature etc are all common so you can see any changes in your water quality.

    From what I see of your test only some basic filtration is needed. I would also recommend a drinking water RO system for the water you consume or cook with.
     
  6. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    The system should be sized for a family of 4.

    How much water and how frequently would backwash be required? Also, will this system have adverse effects on water pressure or flow rate?

    Why would the RO system be recommended?
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Information about your pump could matter. A KL filter can take a fair amount of backwashing -- maybe 7 GPM or so for a 10 inch tank.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  8. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    What tests should I have done to have a better idea of what my issues are? I'm reading there are different iron types. How do I determine what I have?
     
  9. 86sevenfivethreeohnine

    86sevenfivethreeohnine New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Location:
    Illinois
  10. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    I spoke with two local water treatment companies. One suggested a 5micron filter + Water Conditioner w/ a KDF media core. Another suggested a softener first then retest to see if an filox oxidizer is still needed.

    Thoughts?
     
  11. Bannerman

    Bannerman Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Katalox Light a much newer media which has been proven more effective than other, older media such as Filox.

    KL acts as a very good sediment filter and as it will be back washed on a regular basis, any sediment collected will be flushed to drain. A 5 micro filter prior to KL should not be required.

    Ditttohead has provided recommendations. As the most knowledgeable and experienced forum member contributing to your thread, I would suggest seriously considering his recommendations as the most appropriate treatment method based on the information you have provided.
     
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Not sure how much more I can add. My answer remains the same as above. As to the local guys, Filox is an amazing media but it is difficult to apply correctly and KL has completely replaced it in our facility. We bring in KL by the container load and rarely use Birm, Filox, greensand Plus, MTM etc. All of these medias have their pros and cons but KL has become the go to media. Many medias are much cheaper but KL tends to work with the least amount of problems except for the pH rise that is common with it. Filox is great but needs excessive backwash water flow rates.

    KL with softener. Add oxidant later if needed, but probably not needed later considering the pH is 8+.
    Iron and manganese tend to foul resin quickly at that high of a pH. A softener will do little for the sediment issue so the KL system is highly recommended. KL is based on Clinoptilolite which reduces sediment down to the 3-5 micron range.

    You could also add a 1 micron sediment filter after everything if you need further refinement later.

    Hope this helps.
     
  13. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    I had another local company look at my situation. Their recommendation was a Watersoft softener with Vortech plus a point of use RO system.

    Will a softener be effective against 0.2ppm Iron
    0.048 ppm Mn
    19 gpg hardness?

    The only thing not addressed is 2.7 NTU turbidity. Is this value really at a problematic level?

    I'm trying to reconcile what brick and mortar companies are offering up compared to internet research.
     
  14. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    A softener will likely work but... do you have any odors? If so a softener is about useless for that. H2S passes through most softeners. Also the high pH will likely cause the iron/manganese to bind to the resin thereby depleting the capacity quickly. High salt dosage, frequent regenerations, and chemical stripping can be used to mitigate this problem.If odors are present then KL or GAC may be a good adder. As to which manufacturer, I am not a fan of Fake Fleck Valves AKA knockoffs from China. Avoid anything other than original Fleck or Clack valves.
    The turbidity is hard to say for sure, it is likely a result in part due to the iron.

    As to the drinking water RO, this removes 90+% of contaminants from your drinking water. Since you have not had an extensive water test done, proper filtration should be done for the water you consume.
     
  15. gedmeyer

    gedmeyer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Location:
    New York
    Update, if anyone cares...

    I considered 3 approaches:
    #1 water softener only
    #2 filox filter + softener
    #3 katalox light + softener

    Ultimately, I went with option #3. I have a standalone katalox 1.5cf filter plus a 1.5 cf sotener. I did not like the backwash requirements of the Filox and liked that the KL would deal with a several of the convenience issues I had with my water.

    These were purchased through dittohead. Allan was very helpful and willing to discuss the system. The system has been running since June 21.

    Background: I'm doing a full renovation on my house (purchased 9 months ago). All plumbing from the well and in the house is new.

    Install: was very easy, especially since I am all PEX and had a standpipe ready nearby. System came pre-programmed, so I just had to set hardness and time of day. The units fit perfectly in a space I had setup in my utility room. The black resin tanks and blue LCD displays make the units look almost space aged. Per recommendations, I ran the first Katalox backwash for about an hour.

    Performance: The first issue I had with my water was brown/orange staining in toilets in less than a week. This is 100% resolved. I installed a new toilet about 1 week after the water system and the tank is still pristine. Softening took some dialing in. My last water test was last summer and indicated 20 grain hardness and it appears that my hardness is much closer to 10 grain right now (based on test strip measurements and water quality observations). My original pH was 8.2. Currently it's 9+, but that's measured via a pool test strip (I'm told this isn't overly accurate). Softener and filter are sized for 1" pex inlet. I've observed no reductions in flow rate throughout the house.

    Odors: I originally had a low to moderate sulfur odor, especially if water was dispensed by a sprayer (shower head, sink sprayer). This odor appears to be eliminated. When I first set the system up, I had a strong new odor. My wife described it as fishy, but I'm not sure if I subscribe to that label. I might say it was almost plastic-y. Either way, I was told this is typical of KL and would go away. I ran many backwashes; the odor appears to be much less (or I have adapted to it). I really only notice it when I brush my teeth.

    Summary: I am generally pleased with my system. The startup and initial "break in" of the Katalox is a bit annoying, especially when my wife was looking for an immediate "AHA" moment w/ perfect water. We are both pleased with thew water at this point. I am only running a basic refrigerator filter for ice and drinking water.

    Tim
     
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