water softner question (Gary)

[Ally68]

First off I have a kenmore water softner I know they suck but have had it for 10 years.

My first question is mine was not regenrating right not filling enuf or draining enuf turned out to be dirt in the venture valve. works fine now. My question is are all the cycles on the regeration controled by timer like the fill and drain cycle the first two. I thought it would fill till float reached top then drain untill it reached the bottom. But that seems to be not the case. So are they controled by timer and float is just a safety stop incase the timer malfunctions?

Second question mine has not been recharging right for I dont know how long maybe 2 months at the longest. Should I force it to recharge a few nights in a row to extra clean it or does it not work that way?

One more question my mom has same water softner and hers will not drain all water out of brine well like two inches left in bottom mine leaves very little water in bottom maybe 1/2 inch. But hers seems to be working fine and I dont see that it will hurt anything do you. Hers must not drain as fast as mine and timer stops it before it is at bottom.

Thanks gary for your help you knowledge of softners precides you.

 

[SteveW]

I'm not Gary, but have owned 3 Kenmore water softeners and know a little something about them.

I don't remember the actual brand of softener that Sears sells under the Kenmore label, but GE and a few others use the same one. A VERY common problem, in fact a universal problem in my opinion, is that the "rotor disc" in these units fails after about 2-3 years, and leads to inadequate brine suction. This means that you will have excess water in the brine well after a regeneration, and you'll have at least partially hard water since the brine isn't getting into the resin.

Another common problem is that the rubber venturi GASKET needs replacement if it shows any indentations at all -- it will NOT draw brine correctly unless it's completely flat.

I highly recommend you go to www.kenmorewater.com and click on the troubleshooting animation -- it walks you right through the steps to take to diagnose your problem.

The one thing that site won't help with is actually opening up the valve body and replacing the rotor disc. Your owner's manual DOES have info on this, however. It's a 15-20 minute job and not hard.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Slusser]

Add about 3 gallons of water to the water in the brine tank and then wait at least 2 hrs and do a manual regeneration. Next to no softener is ever run at the maximum salt dose, so that extra water is to bring the resin bed back to fully regenerated. Once the manual regen is done, repeat the same process with as little soft water use between the two manual regens as possible.

The float is either used to stop the brine refill, or adjust the salt dose, or as a safety to prevent brine overflow from the brine tank. Those softeners with the safety float then have a brine valve and the cycle is a separate timed cycle. That's the best type of brine system. Those that use the float to set the salt dose refill the brine tank as part of a rinse cycle. The rinse is longer than the time taken for the float to shut off the brine refill.

The amount of brine left in the brine tank after the brining cycle varies by the height of the air check. Usually the height of that water will be up to say 2" deep and it doesn't matter as long as all the water that can be sucked out is sucked out. The brine is sucked out as as part of the slow rinse/brine draw cycle. The slow rinse draws the brine and then continues to rinse the 'salt' through the bed and out of the bed. We want the brine out of the brine tank in the first 10-20 miinutes of that cycle; the cylce is usually from 40-60 minutes in length.

Thanks for the kind words and for posting here. If you have any plumbing or plumbing fixture questions, this is the best place for answers

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[Ally68]

I guess I am lucky had mine going on ten years motor replaced once. I have a friend plumber who rents and sells flecks said he could set me up with one for good deal and nice warrenty. But I want to use this one to the death if you know what I mean once it dies I will switch to the fleck. But seems to work fine about every two years I have to clean out the venture thing but other thatn that fine. My mothers drains the brine out fine just stops sooner than mine but still only about 2 inches of water the sears site says around 2-3 inches in bottom of brine well is normal.

 

[Ally68]

one other question gary what salt is good any? about all I see is the mortons so it is what I use?

 

[Ally68]

I know I said last question but this is the last question.

Did two good regenerations like you said shower still feels sticky afterward. since I noticed the hard feeling about 1 week ago then noticed no salt usage. that is what prompted me to watch the recycle and realize the problem working good now. I am sure the water heater is full of not so soft water. How long will it take to get the hot water in the shower back to normal only two people dont use hot to wash clothes? Can you guess.

Thanks to both of you

 

[Jadnashua]

How big is the heater? A showerhead uses about 2.5 gallons per minute...add a few gallons in the lines, and you can get a good idea.

 

[Ally68]

40 gallon but with the hard and soft mixing in heater I thought it might take longer a handy man I asked said sometimes 1 week but that seems a bit long to me?

 

[Gary Slusser]

If you get around to a new softener, look at the Clack WS-1 and Fleck 7000 controls. They are the best controls on the market today for DIYers and the Clack WS-1 was invented by ex Fleck engineers, so you know it's as good. It doesn't require any special tools to work on it as the 5600 and other Fleck valves do with the exception of the 7000.

I suggest solar crystal salt. That's a type like pellets is a type, not a brand. It totally dissolves, usually can't bridge and it causes the fewest if any salt related problems.

The hot water can be hard while the cold is soft, the hard hot water will be replaced as you use it.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[FJK]

Steve W comments on rotor disc

Steve W. Your comments on the rotor disc being a failure prone part. Could you describe what to look for with a "failed" rotor disc. Is it cracked, broken, or worn? I already bought a new one, but before getting into the water softner, I saw that there is also a rotor seal, so I ordered the seal and am awaiting its arrival. Since the rotor disc & rotor seal are fairly costly (I have the option to return them), I would like to know what to look for. Your guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks, FJK

 

[SteveW]

Rotor disc

Hi FJK,

On mine, the rotor discs get lightly scored after 2-3 years. By this, I mean that they develop very superficial concentric scored rings on them. You can just barely feel them with a fingernail. Those scores are enough, however, to cause a loss of suction in the brining cycle, apparently.

When you do reassemble the valve assembly, the seal kit will come with a little tube of silicone lubricant -- I smear it lightly on the rubber seals and the rotor disc itself - but very lightly so it doesn't clog things up.