Water Softener with RO and Ph (acid) Neutralizer Install Help

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NHmaster3015

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Sorry, I still say that your As a general rule, all traps need vents.... is a generalization.

No, it's not my rule, every code in this country requires traps to be vented one way or another.


I think you are mistakenly thinking that a DIYer did that plumbing.

We had already established that the only thing the OP did was cut in the san tee and the trap. No clue who did the rest, I only pointed out the code errors there and they are code violations no and's if's or but's about it.

The home owner and the OP of this thread told you he did not do that work and that all he did was add the trap and stand pipe. He also said he bought the house recently and has no problems with the drain system and he had a home inspector inspect it before buying it and none of this was mentioned as not being to code. I can't see any house inspector making that kind of serious error.

Well, apparently the home inspector is not up to speed when it comes to illegal use of fittings and traps. What more can I say here. I can print the code and commentary if you would like.


And now you have told him that he has to redo it all now when he installs his new water filter and softener....

I did not even once tell him that he had to re-do anything. What I said was that had he applied for the proper permit and had he had the installation inspected the code inspector would have made him change those things that do not meet code. What I really don't understand is why you want to make an issue out of what any licensed plumber knows is bad plumbing.
 

Gary Slusser

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I did not even once tell him that he had to re-do anything. What I said was that had he applied for the proper permit and had he had the installation inspected the code inspector would have made him change those things that do not meet code. What I really don't understand is why you want to make an issue out of what any licensed plumber knows is bad plumbing.
I don't recall your mentioning what you say you told him about a permit but I do know what his reply to you was, here is a copy;
*************
So now it seems I may have plumbing issues!! Great. Ok, I'm going to fix em. I'm going to just crank it all out while I'm down there working on this stuff. I'm running electric for the gear this weekend and doing the drain line again.
*************

IMO you are causing him confusion and additional stress that he doesn't need. For what? That plumbing has been working without problems for probably many years and you say it will work for his water treatment equipment drain.

And now you're getting into not understanding why I'm making an issue out of what a licensed plumber knows is bad plumbing.... You also say you're getting beat up in this thread in your Help me out here guys thread you started about this plumbing in the plumbing forum.

This thread is 10 pages and 120 posts long, started 2/27/2010 which is 5 weeks ago, and your first post is #107 on page 8 and mostly all you have done is to be critical and disagreeable with things that I have said; and it started in your first post. And personally I see confrontation and a somewhat anti DIYer attitude in your posts about codes rather than anything helpful for the OP.
 

Bob999

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No, I'm saying that I helped you do the right thing which was to finally mention that you had corrected your error days ago and to finally admit that you had made the error that for days and 3 pages of posts afterward you had been denying making that or any error.


Yes I kept mentioning the error you failed to tell anyone about after you deleted it and replaced the wrong statement with correct info.


Yes you did correct the error as if it never happened and the only way anyone would know you made the error is due to my quoting it when I said you were wrong and identified the error. And unless those of us involved in the thread went back and saw your correction of the error, that delay allowed you to continue to deny you made the error. Shame on you but....

No, I didn't change anything you said when I edited out of the quote what I wasn't replying to. What I quoted is letter for letter what you said and in the order you said it. Well that's unless you have gone back now and changed/edited the original, as you did with your incorrect info (error) in post #65.


Since I caught you being "unscroupulous", please show us where you think I have been "unscroupulous", because your saying I am doesn't make it so.

I listed two examples in the post you just filabustered about. Two more examples:
Your constant bashing: and,
you have not yet corrected your errors in this thread and acknowledged that you posted misleading/erroneous information.

But, I suppose it is what is to be expected from a salesman who sells from a no fixed address mobile home.
 

NHmaster3015

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This is an april fools joke right? You have to be kidding. This is a PLUMBING forum is it not? I did not confuse anyone including the poster. The poster wants to have things done right and he is willing and able to do them that way when given good advice. There is NOTHING anti DIY about pointing out things that are not to code anymore than your posts about the length of his connections. And I have not been critical of anything you said other than I do not believe that 1 or 2 lbs of water pressure will make a difference. That's not criticism, it's my opinion or am I not allowed to have one? Furthermore Terry himself acknowledges that the drainage is a mess. What is so wrong with having things done right? I occasionally get a hole or a tear in the fabric of my Citabria. I carry a roll of duct tape for just those occasions. But you can bet your last dollar than when I get her home the hole gets fixed the right way.

And you know what? I don't see the word MODERATOR under your name.
 
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Bob999

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And personally I see confrontation and a somewhat anti DIYer attitude in your posts about codes rather than anything helpful for the OP.

So now you are critical of others for what you do every day--confrontation and an anti DIYer attitude rather than anything helpful for the OP--and even when the others have not been confrontational and anti DIYer. I certainly have seen nothing in the posts from Wally Hays that qualifies as confrontational and anti DIYer!

To specifically support my statement about confrontation--you have repeatedly posted alledged "facts" about me that you have no way of knowing because I have not posted personal information about myself. Yet you continue to post statements about what you think is my background, experience, and expertise. To specifically support my statement about anti-DIYer I need only point to posts you have made--including at least one in this thread where you were critical of a DIYer's decisions AFTER he had made them and posted them on this board. Here is an example:

"And I see that you bought the EE version of the Clack WS-1 and a 5600 time clock for a heavy mineral pH filter. I would have told you not to do that. The 5600 is not a good choice because it is a 3/4" valve. You should have gone with the Clack WS-1CS for both with the one for the filter being non metered or the time clock version."
 

NHmaster3015

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Thanks Bob. This is possibly the most frustrating thing I have seen in a long time and I still don't know what the whole point is. Even the OP thanked me for pointing out the stuff in his basement. The only one that's got a problem here is Gary who somehow thinks I have dissed him because I have a different opinion. frustration..jpg
 

Bob999

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Thanks Bob. This is possibly the most frustrating thing I have seen in a long time and I still don't know what the whole point is. Even the OP thanked me for pointing out the stuff in his basement. The only one that's got a problem here is Gary who somehow thinks I have dissed him because I have a different opinion.View attachment 10326

I certainly don't understand what the point is either. I have to wonder whether it is Egomania -- is an obsessive preoccupation with one's self[ and applies to someone who follows their own ungoverned impulses and is possessed by delusions of personal greatness and feels a lack of appreciation. Someone suffering from this extreme egocentric focus is an egomaniac. The condition is psychologically abnormal.
 

hj

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If Gary's postings convinced you that you had the ability to DIY this, or any other job, I guess it is time to "chuck him along side his head", because we should only be helping people who already know most of the answer to their questions and just need a little nudge, NOT to encourage people that "anyone can do plumbing if they can screw two pipes together". And it looks like you have enough problems in that basement, that you do not need more by an improper softener connection. As a minor point and to answer one of your questions, RO units are USUALLY installed with water softeners to remove the sodium, NOT salt because there is no salt in soft water. There is sodium, and for people on low sodium diets the RO unit makes it safe for them. I also makes soft water more palatable for people, such as myself, who do not like the "flat" taste of soft water.
 

Gary Slusser

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If Gary's postings convinced you that you had the ability to DIY this, or any other job, I guess it is time to "chuck him along side his head", because we should only be helping people who already know most of the answer to their questions and just need a little nudge, NOT to encourage people that "anyone can do plumbing if they can screw two pipes together".

And it looks like you have enough problems in that basement, that you do not need more by an improper softener connection.
HJ, this is not one of my 'chuck'im up long side his head' things. :) Well there is those times in this thread for trying to have a conversation with Wally... or Bob999.

Actually all I have told the OP about plumbing is the size of the drain line he should run and that I would have shortened the lengths of the PEX between his Sharkbite fittings and the length of the copper tails. That drain line is the 3/4" PVC for his like 70' run to the far end of the basement. I didn't see any sense or need to talk about his not to code upside down or misapplied traps etc., or the very ugly Fernco fitting failing to support his cast iron stack. ummm I may have also mentioned he should have used the Clack SCH 80 PVC elbow plumbing connectors instead of the brass inline fittings too.

Anyway he did do good plumbing his PVC 3/4" drain line and running the PEX to his filter and softener but I guess we'll see if it holds water later. And he put the stand pipe in too, and he even used purple primer! without having to be told. So maybe with nothing but the desire, and the ability to sniff PVC glue without passing out, he's turned out to be a pretty good DIYer plumber so far, no? I don't know if he can use wrenches yet. ;)

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thinkup

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Longed

I won't even go into why I've been delayed yet again .... this post not withstanding lol. I'm going to re-read it all again tonight. But hey, here we go, I'm making it a point to get this done this week. The 8th was my birthday and getting this done will be a present to myself.

Ok, point one; I'm a green DIYer and I know I have a ton of problems with the plumbing in the basement. We are going to have the upstairs bathroom done in the not to distant future and correcting all those code issues will take place them. By a "pro", I'm thinking. So for now, the code violations can stand as long as it will "work". Anything you guys see that just won't work I'll correct this week. Everything else will have to wait. I do have to thank everyone for pointing stuff out for me though.

Point two; I know I didn't get the 100% perfect solution for me but what I've got will work for now. When it comes time to fix the bathroom I can make upgrades then. Hopefully an in-floor drain will happen at that time too.

Point three; I've had problems finding the drain line I wanted so I've got something close I hope. This is the last step this week before the RO gets added. If anything won't work I'll make the changes, otherwise I'll just use what I have.

I've ran the power for the system and am ready to get it running. Flaws or stupid setup and all. I want to to find the balance with what I have and get the unit running and programmed and I'll re-consult for upgrades and all that after. Getting my head wrapped around everything is difficult without it actually running.

I'm going to post some photos here of the latest drain tube I have and if it all looks good ...then we can go live!! And hopefully this isn't all effed up to much to work. I'll just close my eyes to all the flaws for now lol. Thanks guys for all the advice.
 
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thinkup

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Drain Tube Sizes

I took Gary's advice and took back the regular tube I had to look for his suggestion. I couldn't find it and the dee-pot had no clue. Figures right. So I bought two sizes of braided vinyl tube. I'll take one back depending on the recommendation. I can see into the tube enough to see the water clarity I think. I have 5/8 OD x 3/8 ID from one tube and 3/4 OD x 1/2 ID in the other.

What do you guys think?
 

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thinkup

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Barbs

I've bought some new barbs and a 3/4 PVC T per a few suggestions. Thanks guys.

I have a new 1/2 barb x 1/2 MIP to screw in the AN filter and then into my new tubing. See above.

I also bought another 1/2 x 1/2 barb to go from the new tubing to the 3/4 PVC T. Just like the one I already had. I'll run the 3/4 PVC down the wall to the 3/4 PVC T and then use the 1/2 Barb to PVC fitting to connect to the tubing.

What do you guys think?
 

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thinkup

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New Parts with Notes

Here are some notes attached to two photos of the new stuff I bought.

What do you guys think?
 

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Gary Slusser

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You couldn't find opaque 5/8" OD 1/2"ID PE (polyethylene) tubing? Most any hardware store has it in a box in a rack with all different sizes in individual boxes and you pull the end of the tubing out of the hole in the box and measure a piece and cut it off; well the clerk does and writes a price sticker for it with the length on it for check out.

Anyway, although what you have will work, better would be 2, 1/2" insert x 1/2" male and 2 reducing bushings from 3/4" slip PVC to 1/2" female for into the tee? Some places have them in PVC, 2 3/4" MPT x 1/2" insert and a 3/4" female threaded Tee?

Use the 3/4", 1/2" ID reinforced Vinyl. Remember nothing smaller than 1/2" ID?
 

waterman824

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Water Softener with RO and Ph (acid) Neutralizer Install Help

I need some help installing a new water softener, RO system and acid neutralizer. I'll post pics as the process is completed and hopefully this thread can serve as a nice guide for the future. I have all the main equipment now and need to move on to the main plumbing part. I'll have to come back around for the programing help at the end but first I need everything hooked up. For Ph I have a Fleck 5600 with 1 cuft. I have the WS1 at 32k with SST-60 resin for the softener. A PuroTech RO system and an inline sand seperator. The RO system also has a pump if I need to install it. This is a small ranch house with one bathroom and a simple shower with a regular shower head. There is only two of us living here. I have 3/4 copper coming in and want to use CPVC and PEX as much as possible. I'm a DIYer but have no plumbing experience. The water comes in at one side of the house from the city and drain goes out to a septic system at the opposite side of the house. Also on the drain side of the house is a tankless hot water heater. The kitchen sink is on the main supply side of the house and the bathroom is on the septic side of the house. (60 to 70 feet apart) I'll post the main questions I have to start below and I'll provide the details need as they come up.

My understanding is that the sediment filter is installed first in line, then the neutralizer and then the softener. Is that correct? Yes

I have to run the drain line about 70 feet to the septic drain. I've read that 3/4 PVC is the smart choice. Is that correct? Can the neutralizer and the water softener share the same 3/4 inch PVC drain? Run 1" and yes you can connect then together. Also, how much should this drain line slope?
No slope is needed

Should the RO system be fed softened water?
Yes

What size plumping pipes should I buy? Everything branches off a main copper pipe that is 3/4 inches now. I don't want the hose bibs softened so I'm even thinking of adding in manifolds if they make sense.
3/4", Put a Tee on the inlet side of the water softener and run a line to your outside hose bibs.

Which is a better choice CPVC vs PEX after the main copper to connect to the water filters?
Pick up two copper to pex adapters.

I'm thinking shark bite fittings for copper to whatever but whats a good PEX connection system? As long as they have them available.I've read up on it and have a hydronic heating system thats using a crimp system that seems ok but has had some leaking problems. I didn't install that system by the way.

What information can I provide to help out here? After installing leave water softener in bypass, open bypass on pH filter and let tank fill with water. Then close the bypass and put system in backwash. This will release the air from the tank out the drain line. The open bypass and let the system finish its regeneration cycle. When pH filter is back in service then open the bypass valve on the water softener and follow the instruction on our site for start up procedure. Here is the installation guide links for both of these systems.

http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/PDF/PH%20Neutralizer%20Installation%20Guide.pdf

http://www.qualitywatertreatment.co...for_Clackws1EE_Water_Softener_rev12_18_09.pdf
 
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thinkup

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It's Alive!

Well it's alive and it appears to be running well. I'll post more pics if anyone is interested.

I took out the pre-filter before the AN in the end.

I had the AN-Filter up and running a day or two first and not a drop of water pressure lost that was noticeable. I could get a sense of the limestone smell and the water tasted different. Is that normal? Is drinking limestone safe?

The softener came on line next and I programmed as per the instructions in the last post from Waterman824. We are only a two person household with one bath and SST-60 (I think) resin. So do those instructions seem about right for me?

Speaking of drinking water, having resin softened water is ok to drink? It's just weird to think about I guess?

O, and RO system went in easy. Not a problem at all with that.

I'll post a follow up post for others as a reference with some final photos in a bit as well. I'll leave out the part where I thought I had the water supply off and didn't and almost flooded the basement with water and soaked the electrical breaker box and all that too. :)
 
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Bob999

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Your Acid Neutralizing filter adds calcium carbonate to the water (same mineral contained in many calcium supplements)--safe to drink. The softener exchanges sodium ions for calcium and magnesium ions (and iron and manganese if present) and is generally considered safe to drink but should be avoided by individuals on a sodium restricted diet. The RO unit removes most of the sodium and other minerals in the water.

The programming instructions in the link you refer to use maximum salt dose for the amount of resin which results in relatively low grains removed per pound of salt used and not what I would recommend for most installations.
 

thinkup

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Thanks for the reply Bob999.

Can you give me a high level overview of your recommendation on the programming of the softener? My goal is first to be salt savy and they to worry about the total softness and resin life. I want this thing to last a long time but my water was only about 10 hard to start and there are only two of us here. Also, I didn't do a manual regen right off the bat. Should I since the first regen won't be till about 10 days from now? Does the type of resin I chose play any big parts in this?

Also for the AN filter; it's set to regen every 4 days. Good idea or not based on the other factors of this setup?
 
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