Water Softener Planning Questions

[rflagler]

After visiting my brother who recently moved to a home with a water softener, my wife expressed interest in the softness of her hair and skin after showering there. I've now begun the process of researching water softeners and could use a little advice. I'm dumping a lot of data here, but I'm bolding my questions to help navigate what may be unnecessary information.

For starters, here is information pertaining to my local city water.
Calcium 29 PPM
Iron <0.01 PPM
Magnesium 9.4 PPM
pH 8.5
TDS 340ppm
Hardness 170ppm/9.94gpg
Chlorine 2.5ppm
Average water usage = 270gal/day

Based on the above data, my usage load is the following.
270gal/day * 10gpg * 1.3 = 3510 grains per day

With that usage load per day, I'm estimating the amount of resin needed to regen at most every 7 days to be the following.
7days * 3510 grains = 24570 grains

For a 3000-3500 grain per pound efficiency I'm sitting between a 1cuft and 1.5cuft resin volume. Would there be any disadvantage to getting 1.5cuft and regen less frequently than 7 days?

I've been reading that there are a few things that can reduce the life of resin. Chlorine, iron, and sediment. We personally don't dislike the taste of our existing water, our iron content is extremely low, and I'm not sure how to know if our water has sediment that would build up. Is there a specific PPM of chlorine that would necessitate a carbon filter before the water softener? I'm not looking to improve water taste, only curious how much chlorine it takes to impact resin life in any meaningful way. In regards to sediment, should I always put some type of filter before the softener, even if it's not a carbon one? Also, is there any need to use a product like res-care if my iron content is so low?

Based on what I've read I was going to get the following.
Flex 5810SXT / 5800SXT Downflow Valve (Depending on supplier. My lines are only 3/4 ID)
1.5cuft of 8-10% crosslink Resin
10"x54" Resin Tank
~240lb Brine Tank
No carbon filter
No Res-care

My biggest question is where to purchase this equipment? I've found the following websites that carry this for similar pricing, but I've read some bad things about getting support from some online suppliers.
ohiopurewater.com
affordablewater.us
aquatell.com
qualitywaterforless.com
isopurewater.com

Lastly, sometimes I feel like I "go all in" on projects and maybe that's not always necessary. Is there any reason buying a basic system from a big box store wouldn't suffice for what I want/need? My brother just picked up a Morton softener for ~$350 and while I'm sure it's not the same quality, would it get the job done for ~1/3rd the cost of what I'm looking into right now?

Thanks!

 

[Water Pro]

After visiting my brother who recently moved to a home with a water softener, my wife expressed interest in the softness of her hair and skin after showering there. I've now begun the process of researching water softeners and could use a little advice. I'm dumping a lot of data here, but I'm bolding my questions to help navigate what may be unnecessary information.

For starters, here is information pertaining to my local city water.
Calcium 29 PPM
Iron <0.01 PPM
Magnesium 9.4 PPM
pH 8.5
TDS 340ppm
Hardness 170ppm/9.94gpg
Chlorine 2.5ppm
Average water usage = 270gal/day

Based on the above data, my usage load is the following.
270gal/day * 10gpg * 1.3 = 3510 grains per day

With that usage load per day, I'm estimating the amount of resin needed to regen at most every 7 days to be the following.
7days * 3510 grains = 24570 grains

For a 3000-3500 grain per pound efficiency I'm sitting between a 1cuft and 1.5cuft resin volume. Would there be any disadvantage to getting 1.5cuft and regen less frequently than 7 days?

I've been reading that there are a few things that can reduce the life of resin. Chlorine, iron, and sediment. We personally don't dislike the taste of our existing water, our iron content is extremely low, and I'm not sure how to know if our water has sediment that would build up. Is there a specific PPM of chlorine that would necessitate a carbon filter before the water softener? I'm not looking to improve water taste, only curious how much chlorine it takes to impact resin life in any meaningful way. In regards to sediment, should I always put some type of filter before the softener, even if it's not a carbon one? Also, is there any need to use a product like res-care if my iron content is so low?

Based on what I've read I was going to get the following.
Flex 5810SXT / 5800SXT Downflow Valve (Depending on supplier. My lines are only 3/4 ID)
1.5cuft of 8-10% crosslink Resin
10"x54" Resin Tank
~240lb Brine Tank
No carbon filter
No Res-care

My biggest question is where to purchase this equipment? I've found the following websites that carry this for similar pricing, but I've read some bad things about getting support from some online suppliers.
ohiopurewater.com
affordablewater.us
aquatell.com
qualitywaterforless.com
isopurewater.com

Lastly, sometimes I feel like I "go all in" on projects and maybe that's not always necessary. Is there any reason buying a basic system from a big box store wouldn't suffice for what I want/need? My brother just picked up a Morton softener for ~$350 and while I'm sure it's not the same quality, would it get the job done for ~1/3rd the cost of what I'm looking into right now?

Thanks!

big box store units are of much lesser quality and much shorter lifespan. Online dealers usually skimp on the components. Best to purchase a fleck or clack from a reputable local dealer. Although, clack can't get circuit board for 2 months, so they're out of the question unless a dealer has some in stock. pm dittohead, he may have availability on the 5800 series.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

With water treatment equipment, you typically get what you pay for. For big box equipment to be 1/3 the price, how do you think that is possible?

Likewise, systems sold online is primarily focused on low price. While an online dealer may highlight their system is equipped with a great quality Fleck control valve, they typically do not specify the brand or model of other components. Low quality components such as tanks, screens and resin which often will not pass safety requirements, are available from overseas for a fraction of the price of quality domestic components which usually appear to be the same.

Many online dealers have no actual knowledge or experience in water treatment, but will simply fillout a checkoff sheet of options which is sent to a generic assembler who assemble systems for numerous similar dealers. Those syestems are then drop shipped directly to each dealer's customer with the online dealer never having touched the equipment.. If the customer has an issue with the system, the dealer will typically tell them to contact Fleck, even when the issue maybe caused by a low quality non-Fleck component obtained overseas.

Iron specified in a water quality report, is typically referring to Ferrous iron which is dissolved in the water. As municipally supplied water is commonally chlorinated, ferrous iron that was in the raw water, will have been oxidized by the chlorine to convert it to Ferric iron which will usually precipitate out from the water before arriving to your home.

With regard to pre-equipment filtration, does your water contain visible debris? Small particles will be routinely backwashed out to drain during regeneration, but if excessive debris is visible, then an initial sediment filter is advised.

10% cross-link resin will better tolerate chlorine compared to standard 8% cross-link resin, but any amount of chlorine in constant contact with the resin will reduce it's lifespan. A backwashing carbon system located prior to the softener, will extend the life of the resin while also eliminating the chlorine and biproducts of disinfection which would otherwise be ingested, breathed in or absorbed through the skin by each member of your household.

 

[Gary Bowling]

Everyone's experience is different and some times it just depends on where you live. I won't bash online sellers any more than I will bash local installers. Where I live, if you get a local installer, you're likely going to get someone that is very young and has probably just started in the field. He probably works for a guy who knows very little about water softeners and is less knowledgeable than some of the online sellers. But, if you live in the right place and are lucky, you might also get someone that is a true professional and does a great job for a reasonable price.

Bottom line, the only way to make sure you get the right information, a good system, and it's installed and configured correctly is to study it and understand what you need for yourself. Regardless of whether you buy it online or get it from a local installer. Which of course is why you're here! At a good DIY forum where you can read a lot and start to understand how all this works and what you need.

So I encourage you to read a lot here, read a lot at other places, do some calculations yourself to understand how things work. Take the advice of many different people (and certainly not just me, I'm just one voice), and come to a conclusion as to what you need. Once you determine that, then you can look at online and local suppliers and find someone who will do what you already know needs to be done at a price point you can live with. Or, if your game, obtain the supplies and do it yourself. It will be rewarding and you'll know how it works and how best to maintain it.

Just my 2 cents.

G

 

[Reach4]

Would there be any disadvantage to getting 1.5cuft and regen less frequently than 7 days?

You want longer than 7 days. 1.5 cuft of resin would be a minimum. 720 gallons per day is a lot. Remember your irrigation water does not get softened.

With city water, you must get 10% crosslinked resin.

A big backwashing carbon tank before the softener takes out chlorine and also some chemicals that may be there. Not talking about a cartridge.

 

[rflagler]

Thanks everyone for all the replies.

There are no visible contaminates in our water, so I'm not too worried about that. It sounds like 10% crosslinked resin should last longer in general. Is using a chemical treatment on the resin recommended yearly no matter the iron content of the water?
@Reach4 Regarding my water usage, I think you displaced a couple numbers, my usage is 270 gallons per day, not 720! I was using my average water usage in months where my irrigation was not in use. I was also looking at a backwashing carbon tank, it sounds like I could either manually backwash or get one with a fleck (or similar) control valve to do it automatically. Is there any reason to spend more on a control valve for a carbon filter? Would a Fleck 5800 provide any benefit over a Fleck 5600 in regards to scheduled backwashes for a carbon filter? It doesn't seem like it, but I don't want to overlook anything either.

 

[Reach4]

There are no visible contaminates in our water, so I'm not too worried about that. It sounds like 10% crosslinked resin should last longer in general. Is using a chemical treatment on the resin recommended yearly no matter the iron content of the water?

If you had iron content, yes. However iron will normally settle out of city water on the way to your house.

Regarding my water usage, I think you displaced a couple numbers, my usage is 270 gallons per day, not 720! I was using my average water usage in months where my irrigation was not in use. I was also looking at a backwashing carbon tank, it sounds like I could either manually backwash or get one with a fleck (or similar) control valve to do it automatically. Is there any reason to spend more on a control valve for a carbon filter? Would a Fleck 5800 provide any benefit over a Fleck 5600 in regards to scheduled backwashes for a carbon filter? It doesn't seem like it, but I don't want to overlook anything either.

Not sure what I did. Using 270 in calculation, I find 1 cuft will probably backwash every 7 or 8 days for you, 1.5 is better. It can handle higher throughput, and is a really nice size if you have the space. Price difference is not much. No downside for city water.

For carbon, you could use a manual backwash valve with a lever. Cheaper still is an upflow tank with no backwash, but that is not as good. A 5600 mechanical with timer or SXT can backwash a 10-inch diameter GAC or catalytic carbon at 5 or 6 GPM fine. This would be a reasonable choice if your plumbing is 3/4 inch. If your plumbing is 1 inch, then the 5810SXT (or 1-inch manual) would be better. You want to find out if your city water uses chloromine, and if so, usually catalytic carbon is chosen.

 

[rflagler]

If you had iron content, yes. However iron will normally settle out of city water on the way to your house.

Not sure what I did. Using 270 in calculation, I find 1 cuft will probably backwash every 7 or 8 days for you, 1.5 is better. It can handle higher throughput, and is a really nice size if you have the space. Price difference is not much. No downside for city water.

For carbon, you could use a manual backwash valve with a lever. Cheaper still is an upflow tank with no backwash, but that is not as good. A 5600 mechanical with timer or SXT can backwash a 10-inch diameter GAC or catalytic carbon at 5 or 6 GPM fine. This would be a reasonable choice if your plumbing is 3/4 inch. If your plumbing is 1 inch, then the 5810SXT (or 1-inch manual) would be better. You want to find out if your city water uses chloromine, and if so, usually catalytic carbon is chosen.

Yea, my plumbing is 3/4". I found no mention of chloromine or ammonia in any water reports or websites for my city water, so is it safe to assume at that point they're aren't using chloromine?

 

[Bryceslu]

Yea, my plumbing is 3/4". I found no mention of chloromine or ammonia in any water reports or websites for my city water, so is it safe to assume at that point they're aren't using chloromine?

I would suggest Catalytic Carbon either way...your city will probably switch to chloramine at some point and you dont want to be stuck.

 

[Reach4]

Yea, my plumbing is 3/4". I found no mention of chloromine or ammonia in any water reports or websites for my city water, so is it safe to assume at that point they're aren't using chloromine?

You could call your water department.

I would suggest Catalytic Carbon either way...your city will probably switch to chloramine at some point and you dont want to be stuck.

Do you think catalytic carbon does as well as GAC on chlorine, pesticides, radon, etc?

I tend to think "catalytic carbon" is a very generic non-specific term. I use Centaur Carbon, which is a form of catalytic carbon, for my iron+H2S filter. It gets dosed with chlorine bleach solution during each regen.

 

[rflagler]

@Reach4 I contacted my water company and they confirmed they use ammonia later in the system to stabilize the chlorine resulting in chloramine. I don't know why I assumed the water report would list this information. Thank you for guiding me to ask.

I've messaged dittohead and hopefully can get information on a supplier to dig a little deeper into products and offerings.