I'm on well water and recently replaced my water softener and added a whole house backwashing GAC filter for sediment and taste/odor, both have a Fleck 5600SXT head, 48k grain capacity on the softener. GAC is just after pressure tank followed by softener. System worked fine for better part of a year but started to see where house water pressure would drop to a trickle after a few minutes of start of a shower, sink, etc. Troubleshot and found that if I bypassed the filter it corrected the pressure and was fine, so isolated to the filter. Tried multiple backwashes on the filter but no change. Pressure per the gauge is over 60-PSI and appears to consistent. Any thoughts?
Water Softener and Whole House backwashing Carbon filter
- Thread starter tddougla
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do you have iron in your water? if so my guess is your carbon filter is clogged with iron sludge. take off the control valve and check the top screen. it could also be clogged with sediment others here have more experience with that.
but whatever its clogged with is now clogging your softener - so plan to do some softener maintenance once you get the carbon filter figured out.
but whatever its clogged with is now clogging your softener - so plan to do some softener maintenance once you get the carbon filter figured out.
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you say you had odor. was it sulfur odor? if so you have iron or manganese which is accompanied by Iron or sulfur reducing bacteria (IRB or SRB). I suggest you test your raw water for the presence of both iron and mang before proceeding. GAC is an adsorbent (used for removing Chlorine or hydrogen peroxide) that should not be used to remove iron or manganese. your upper screen (on the bottom of the control head) may be clogged, as may the GAC be clumping. I suggest you take the control head off and check the screen. you can clean the screen and reuse the control head only after emptying and cleaning the media tank and replacing the GAC with catalytic carbon. Katalox light is what I would recommend. Then, depending on the amount of iron or mang present, add a peristaltic pump injecting Hydrogen peroxide prior to the carbon tank. This will oxidize the iron and/ or manganese so the new carbon will remove it properly.
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Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Post a current lab test report for your raw well water.
It seems the GAC filter is the only device currently affected. As you mentioned sediment, is it actually observed in the water pre treatment? While some debris will be rinsed from the media during backwash, if debris is visible, it should be removed prior to the back washing GAC tank. You may then wish to consider installing an Atlas Filtri Hydra so debris maybe easily purged to drain or a bucket without needing to clean or replace cartridges.
What is the current backwash flow rate for the GAC filter? If the BW flow rate, frequency or duration is insufficient, then sediment may not be being fully rinsed out from the media. Fine sediment particles that accumulate in the media will restrict flow.
Also, confirm the flow direction through the GAC filter is correct. The incoming feed to the filter should be on the right when facing the front of the 5600.
I assume the GAC filter is also using a 10" X 54" tank so the Backwash flow rate should be between 4.3 - 6.5 GPM depending on the backwash water temperature. If there is debris, suggest using a 6.5 GPM DLFC if your well pump can deliver that flow rate for the entire usual 10+ minutes BW + 5 minutes Rapid Rinse cycle. The 5600 supports a maximum 7.0 GPM backwash flow rate.
To determine the current actual BW flow rate, measure the time needed to fill a 5-gallon bucket with the GAC filter's drain flow during BW.
It seems the GAC filter is the only device currently affected. As you mentioned sediment, is it actually observed in the water pre treatment? While some debris will be rinsed from the media during backwash, if debris is visible, it should be removed prior to the back washing GAC tank. You may then wish to consider installing an Atlas Filtri Hydra so debris maybe easily purged to drain or a bucket without needing to clean or replace cartridges.
What is the current backwash flow rate for the GAC filter? If the BW flow rate, frequency or duration is insufficient, then sediment may not be being fully rinsed out from the media. Fine sediment particles that accumulate in the media will restrict flow.
Also, confirm the flow direction through the GAC filter is correct. The incoming feed to the filter should be on the right when facing the front of the 5600.
I assume the GAC filter is also using a 10" X 54" tank so the Backwash flow rate should be between 4.3 - 6.5 GPM depending on the backwash water temperature. If there is debris, suggest using a 6.5 GPM DLFC if your well pump can deliver that flow rate for the entire usual 10+ minutes BW + 5 minutes Rapid Rinse cycle. The 5600 supports a maximum 7.0 GPM backwash flow rate.
To determine the current actual BW flow rate, measure the time needed to fill a 5-gallon bucket with the GAC filter's drain flow during BW.
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No significant level of iron in the water. Water softener not clogged and if I bypass the filter the softener seems to work fine pressure wise, although it has started to leave the first batch of water following regeneration cycle with a yellow tint until flushed.
Intent was just to take care of any odor or taste with the carbon filter and potentially sedement. No sulfur/rotten egg smells.
Debris/sediment not visible, was intended as a preventative. Have seen in prior activity with old softener some undissolved solids make their way through but not seeing that with the softener change. Filter flow rate is in the 4-5GPM currently and is set for every 7-days. As part of troubleshooting have tried it every other day with same result and also increasing the BW and RR values with no change.
Flow direction is correct and it worked fine until a couple of months ago, have been troubleshooting ever since. May need as others suggested to pull the head and check to see if there is a restriction. Assume that if the restriction is cleared that this should resolve my issue, if so may need to look at a media filter or similar.
Also, yes the GAC was stated and it is actually catalytic carbon, apologies if the terminology was incorrect.
that is not a good sign. on a 1yr old softener you should have no discoloration in the service water. I think you probably have more iron than you think. do you have a water test you can post? to be clear - your softener may not be clogged to the point of flow loss, but it is gradually clogging with crud of some sort that will cause other problems. I'm thinking iron bacteria here.
what sorts of problems did you have with the old softener? how old was it?
ah ok. I suggest you get a raw water test first. I suggest regenerating the softener every two days as it may give you some relief and, hopefully, mitigate any potential damage to the softening resin.
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Bannerman
Well-Known Member
Define what 'No significant level' means.
I suspect there is more debris in your water than you may realize.
As I had asked about the Backwash (drain) flow rate, I anticipate that is what you are referring to.
Depending on the temperature of the water used for backwashing, 5 GPM may be adequate, but if the water temp is 60F or above, suggest installing a higher flowing DLFC (drain line flow control) restrictor to increase the drain flow rate.
What is the BW time setting currently programmed?
Increasing the RR setting will offer little benefit. Despite the name, the RR cycle is intended to only recompact the media after being 'fluffed-up' during the backwash cycle. 5 minutes RR is typically sufficient.
Do not have a recent water test to post but will do one today and post here. Previous water softener was undersized for the house and was >25 yrs old and couldn't keep up with water usage and finally stopped working. When removing I didn't find any buildup or restrictions but as it is a well I know that changes can occur and may need to put in a sediment filter ahead of the Carbon filter.
Much appreciated and apologize for any confusion. Iron at last test was in the 2.3 PPM range, will get another today and post.
Correct, the provided flow rate was for the Backwash(drain) flow rate.
BW is currently 10 minutes. Have tried bumping this up to 15 minutes but no change.
RR is at 5-minutes.
2.3ppm is significant. and based on your symptoms 99% sure you have iron bacteria too. so you have an IRB colony breeding in your softener. pretty soon it will migrate to your water heater and toilet tanks and cause a big mess.
here's what you need to do Today: go get a bottle of this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pro-Products-64-oz-Res-Care-RK03B/306730104 and dump 3-4 oz down the the brine well and do an immediate manual regeneration. do the same thing again tomorrow night.
in the meantime get some of this stuff https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Citric-Acid-Pound-NON-GMO/dp/B01DKRP1GM and start adding 1/2 cup with each bag of salt.
this takes priority over dealing with the carbon filter.
also go watch some YouTube videos on how to disassemble, clean, and rebuild your control valve. because you will need to do it.
here's what you need to do Today: go get a bottle of this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pro-Products-64-oz-Res-Care-RK03B/306730104 and dump 3-4 oz down the the brine well and do an immediate manual regeneration. do the same thing again tomorrow night.
in the meantime get some of this stuff https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Citric-Acid-Pound-NON-GMO/dp/B01DKRP1GM and start adding 1/2 cup with each bag of salt.
this takes priority over dealing with the carbon filter.
also go watch some YouTube videos on how to disassemble, clean, and rebuild your control valve. because you will need to do it.
Bannerman
Well-Known Member
National Labs WaterCheck's standard well test is the comprehensive lab test most recommended on this forum.
http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5
Will do.
If doing that, I would stop the flow soon after the brine has been sucked out, to let this expensive liquid sit with the resin for a while. One way you can do this, without having to operate the programming on the controller, is to throw the unit into bypass with the bypass valve. That way, no new water comes in to rinse your cleaning solution away. I am not saying that letting the cycle continue normally is not effective. I just think that stopping he flow at the right time is more effective.
Even better timing on when to stop the flow is when the TDS jumps big (well over 1000) at the drain line, indicating that the brine has made it all of the way through the resin column.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/garys-trick-and-how-effective-is-iron-out.47363/
Note that the effect of unplugging your softener will vary according to the valve. Putting the bypass valve in bypass should work for all I think.
More economical, and I suspect maybe more effective, is to dissolve about a cup of Iron Out or so in water, and use that instead.
https://www.menards.com/main/grocer...-rust-stain-remover/io10n/p-1444444183163.htm
Lots of cups in a 152 ounce container of crystals. Downside is the smell is not as good, but I don't think it is harmful. I don't mind the smell for a while.
Some layer Iron Out in with their salt routinely.
Have been periodically adding Iron out to the brine well and use the rust reducing salt. Same issue. Assume the Rescare will rejuvinate the resin, not sure what the citris piece will do but willing to try anything. Looking at buy a couple of BigBlue filter housings to put ahead of the problematic carbon filter. Have verified the valve screen is good on the water softener, will pull the head on the carbon filter this evening while I await the chemicals referenced above to arrive. Can unclog the upper screen if blocked, if the catalytic carbon has become gummed up is there any resolving/refreshing this or do I need to replace or will a proper backwashing correct?
I would put one only, maybe 50 micron. Do not use cellulose elements with non-chlorinated water.
Then maybe put a 25-5 DRG filter after the last stage.
I think citric acid and Rescare (phosphoric acid mainly) and Iron Out all work the same way.
For a carbon filter, make sure you have enough backwash for the diameter of the tank. This backwash rate can be determined at least two ways:
1. Check the DLFC and make sure the pump can keep 30 psi or better during backwash
2. See how fast (in seconds) it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket with the drain line. That is easier with a flex drain line. GPM =300/seconds.
My 10 inch tank uses a special catalytic carbon, and gets backwashed and a dose of bleach solution every 3 days. My DLFC is 5 gpm.
For IRB or SRB, I figure to knock that stuff down, along with other bugs, by sanitizing well and plumbing every year or two if your sanitizing is rigorous enough. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my writeup. Warm weather is more comfortable, and freezing probably would not work so well. And there is lead time to get the stuff.
So not (2) Big Blues right next to each other but maybe a spin down 50 micron with a 2505 DRG prior to the carbon filter?
I've monitored the pump pressure gauge just after the pressure tank during filter backwash and it was able to maintain 60+psi initially but not currently so must have an obstruction in there, will check and then verify the DLFC.
I try to shock the well at least once a year. Is there a method to retrofit a 5600sxt to be able to dose in a bleach solution for long term sanitization? The filter I have has 1.5 Cu-ft of the catalytic carbon in it, unsure if that is considered "special" or how the bleach solution would affect this.
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