Water pressure drop

[DvmDean]

in the last few weeks the pressure drops in the house after the water pressure tank empties. Have a 1 hp pump, think red lion brand. Well drilled in 1995 ish. Think 300 ft. Pump replaced in 2001 when we bought the house. Iron water. Unsure of gpm refill on well production. Has run dry a couple of times, I.e. Pressure washing the house, etc. diaphram type tank , aqua air, guess about 35 to 40 gallon sized.
Water pressure fine at first then slows somewhat after a few minutes, unless multiple faucets or toilets used, becomes slow trickle.
Pressure switch 30/50, pressure tank not waterlogged. 6 inch pipe out of ground at wellhead.
QD control box in well house have replaced it a couple of times over the years.
Suspect pump starting to die.
Any ideas?
Thanks

 

[Valveman]

My guess is the inlet screen or impellers are clogged with iron. You get a little bit of good pressure until the tank is empty, then the pump cannot produce enough water to keep the pressure up. I would do a bucket test to see how much the pump is producing and go from there.

 

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[Craigpump]

If the pump screen is blocked, the pump impellers are plugged or the pump is worn out, the pump will be running a lot longer to build pressure. That additional run time will have an impact on your electric bill.

 

[DvmDean]

Just switched out the control box L2 the black wire from the pressure switch to the control box was burned in two. Reworded to the new box . Had checked with tank full pumped out ~6 gallons of water. Took 65 seconds to run the fill cycle.
With hose wide open empties tank will hold at 30 psi pressure for a couple of minutes then pressure starts dropping and at about 22 psi the pump shuts off. Can get it to restart with the lever on the side of the pressure switch.
If I have to replace the pump, looking at the red lion pump that I assume that I have at 300 ft it only puts out 1 gpm if I am reading the chart correctly. Know that ya'll recommend Goulds pumps and have read on the blog somewhere that Franklin boxes won't work with csv valve setups. Why? If so what should I replace it with. Probably going to have to get a Craine truck to pull the pump. Was put in with pvc pipe. Going to have it replaced with black pipe, hear that it's easier to pull, true
Also was reading about a pump protecter that you can add to the inside of a Franklin box so that it won't allow the pump to burn up. What other things to consider?

 

[DvmDean]

Also aqua air pressure tank V100

 

[Valveman]

Franklin control boxes work fine with a CSV. But the Franklin Pumptec (dry run protector) will not work with a CSV. They are not adjustable enough, like the Cycle Sensor, which will work with a CSV.

What Red Lion pump are you looking at?

300' of PVC and black poly pipe will weigh about the same. Both can be pulled in one long continuous 300' piece if you have enough muscle. But the poly doesn't have connections every 20' like PVC does if you want to use a hoist and put it in 20' at a time.

 

[LLigetfa]

Can get it to restart with the lever on the side of the pressure switch.

Those low cutoff levers are just gimmicks and not comprehensive protection. They are more of a nuisance. For true protection use something that actually senses the current such as a Cycle Sensor.

If the water level in the well drops, then so does the GPM. If you draw more GPM than the pump can deliver, you get a nuisance low pressure cutoff.

I have to question whether the well actually runs dry meaning the level is pumped down to the pump intake or is it just deadheading the pump?

 

[DvmDean]

I am assuming that since I have a 1 hp control box that I have a 1 hp pump.
Pertty sure that it was a red lion pump put in last time in 2001.
So if those assumptions are correct, I would have a red lion RL 12 G10-3W2V, which has 12 gpm max and can go to depth of 399 ft. But at 300 ft, 40 psi only makes 1 gpm, 30 psi makes 4 gpm.
Calculating gpm of pump now 5.53.... Gpm while filling tank, but can't fill pressure tank with hose Bibb wide open, eventually looses pressure and then the pump shuts off. Thus having to restart it with lever on side of pressure switch.

So do you think pump is bad and if so how do I check it further?
If I need to replace it, go back to same or change? If change , to what? Bigger hp motor pump? Different brand?
Got 17 years out of current pump! Still like the idea of 3 wire with control box, easier and much cheaper to swap out control box than pay to have pump pulled!!!
What are ya'lls suggestions?
Thanks for all your knowledge

 

[Valveman]

That is not enough pump is your water level is at 300'. I would go for the same 12 GPM series pump in a 1.5 HP, so it will still produce 10 GPM at 50 PSI. Also you do not need the low pressure cut off switch AND the QD relay in the control box. Let the QD protect from dry run, then you won't have to go lift that little lever every time the pressure gets low. But you probably won't have that problem when using the larger pump.

Having had to replace the control box a few times is indicative of the pump cycling on and off too much. Which is the opposite problem from having low pressure. So I am wondering if the well water level is much higher than 300'? This would mean the low pressure is being caused by a worn out pump, not from a low producing well. With a water level of 200' or higher, your pump would be cycling on and off when using less than 9 GPM. If that is what use to happen, then your water level is higher than 300', so the pump must be worn and not actually too small for the application.

 

[DvmDean]

NO WELL IS 300 FEET DEEP. I AM NOT SURE OF THE WATER LEVEL, WAS TOLD IN THE PAST THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE GRANITE HERE THAT THE WATER IS ACCTUALLY COMING INTO THE WELL AT THE TOP AND THAT THE 300 FT IS JUST ACTING LIKE A RESERVOIR.
SO PROBABLY IS A WORN PUMP SINCE ITS 17 YEARS OLD. AGAIN IS IRON WATER.
JUST TO MAKE SURE I HAVE IT RIGHT. I COULD PUT ANOTHER RED LION 1HP PUMP BACK IN AND ADD A CSV WITH MY CURRENT FRANKLIN BOX AS LONG AS I DO NOT USE A PUMPTEC DRY RUN PROTECTOR?
IF I WANTED MORE WATER PRESSURE WOULD A 1 1/2HP PUMP WITH CSV ADDED WORK BETTER THAN A 1HP W/CSV AND NEW HIGHER (40/60)PRESSURE SWITCH?
AGAIN WHAT ARE YOUR TOP NAME BRANDS FOR PUMPS TO WORK WITH CSV?

 

[Valveman]

That means it is a high water level. 17 years and iron, yeah probably need a new pump. With a CSV you can put in as large a pump as you think you may ever need, and the CSV makes it work like a small pump when that is all you need. But the CSV cannot make a small pump act like a large one.

My favorite for that depth and more water would be a Grundfos 16S15-14 with a 1.5HP motor. But if the 1HP was working well all these years, a new one of those would also work fine.

 

[DvmDean]

WAS JUST TOLD BY WELL DRILLER, THAT CANT USE BLACK PIPE IN WELLS OVER 200 FT DEEP. ALSO THAT 2 WIRE PUMPS ARE BETTER THAN 3 WIRE. SOUNDS LIKE TO ME HE DOESNT WANT ANYONE TO BE ABLE TO FIX WELL BUT HIM. AS PULLING 300 FT OF PVC IS MUCH TOUGHER THAN BLACK PIPE.