water lines, exterior walls, winter cold...

[doc5md]

The 3/4 bath below is going to be installed in an area that was previous a porch, but has been since removed. in it's place, a footer was dug, conrete poured and a short block wall built. moisture barrier was placed in the resulting crawl space, and then the area was framed out using 2x6's for the exterior walls and 12" i-joists for the floor support.
Access to the crawl space from the basement for the plumbing runs is easy as there are existing holes in the foundation from the porch supports.
The waste plumbing will be easy and I've already posted here about it. I am now more concerned with keeping the pipes from freezing.

So, my question is:
Where would you run the supply lines? The green walls are the new, exterior 2x6 walls, the thick yellow wall behind the toilet, etc is the old brick ext wall, that will be firred out with 2x2's. We are in north central PA.

 

[Mike Swearingen]

I'm not a pro plumber, but I would plumb the supplies to the toilet and shower up between the 2X2" furring strips on the inner wall, and the vanity sink lines up through the floor. You will have to remove some brick for the shower valve. I live in NC and the only time that I've ever had a line freeze was in an insulated 6" exterior wall behind the kitchen sink.
Mike

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Redwood]

I would seriously avoid putting supply lines in exterior walls.

 

[doc5md]

If I don't run them in the exterior walls, I'd be left with running them in the joist spaces with a crawl space below and I'm not really sure that is any better, or is it?
I probably have room to build the wall with the vanity and shower on it out another few inches, but does that really solve the problem? Would I insulate the 2x6wall, drywall it, then build a 2x2 wall, more insulation and run the pipes in that?
Any other ideas?

 

[Redwood]

Yea, the crawl space may also be problematic...

 

[Jadnashua]

I assume you are going to insulate the floor...you could run the lines just beneath the floor with the insulation beneath it so they are on the warm side. Just keep in mind that if you go on vacation for awhile and turn the heat down, you are putting the lines at risk. I'd be worried about lines in an exterior wall in PA. Even the floor could be a problem...any air leak and a good breeze could freeze things solid.

 

[SewerRatz]

The codes state that you should not install plumbing where it can freeze. But if you do you must provide some sort of freeze protection. The following from the Illinois Plumbing Code

No distribution pipe or pipes shall be installed or permitted outside of a building or in an exterior wall unless provisions are made to protect such pipe from freezing, including but not limited to wrap-on insulation or heat tape tracer line or wire.

 

[doc5md]

I think I can get the toilet and shower plumbing in the 2x2 firred wall.
I think I can build inward on the exterior wall by another 2 inches, giving more insulation for the pipes for the vanity. I would plan on insulating the pipes with wrap of some sort.
Some other questions:
would you go with PEX or copper there?
Would putting the plumbing in the floor with tile above with in floor heating mat make any difference?
thanks.