water level drop

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    No kidding..... As soon as I mentioned curves...... I know you got disoriented. LOL

    Maybe later. Such pain to type on this crappy phone.....
     
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    A good porcelain tile has less than 1% absorbtion rate. Take your grout example...the head pressure is still WAY less than in the flood test. The head or water pressure on the membrane of a surface membrane shower is never worse than in the flood test, and if it does not leak then, it will never leak.

    Looks aside, and there's no reason a Kerdi shower need look any different than a conventionally built one, if the workmanship is properly it DOES NOT LEAK! There are lots of acceptable ways to build the curb and the pan can use their tray or be made from deckmud. As long as the shape of the pan conforms to industry standards, once covered with Kerdi, it is fine.

    The quality of the finish work has no reliable relationship to how well it was waterproofed. A beautiful looking shower can leak just as easily as a lousy one be watertight.

    FWIW, there are some places in Hawaii that average nearly 400" of rain a year, verses some in say Arizona that may average 5". Does that mean that a roof in HI will leak verses one in AZ because it sees more water? No, properly built, they are both waterproof and protect what's underneath them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  3. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    John, can you post a picture of the shower in progress with the low curb when its completed? I like the tiles and want to see how the this one turns out, especially the floor.

    thanks,
    Leo
     
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Can anyone show me where a porcelain tile broke loose from Ditra or Kerdi in an actual install when it was installed per Schluter's recommendations (this includes proper prep of the floor)? Yes, you probably can if there were not one of those membranes underneath it. The Robinson floor test of DitraXL on a 24" joist spacing (really stressful), installed per Schluter's recommendation gets a heavy or extra-heavy rating, depending on the tile size. This is better than installation at 16"OC with a cbu...so, who are you going to believe? The manufacturer that has the independent TCNA test results to verify it, or someone like John Whipple that just doesn't like me or Schluter, or believe they know how to install their own products? Those test reports are: TCNA-303-06 and TCNA-153-09. You can look them up yourself, if you don't believe me.

    As to bond strength, the TCNA also did some tests with porcelain tile with unmodified mortar, and came up with the following shear test average values of 277 and 365psi. Those test results are in TCA-073-03 and TCA-186-03. If you extrapolate those results to a 12x12 tile, that comes to 144*277= 39,888 or 144*365=52,560. I think, along with the long-term experience with their use AND the independent test results, John is blowing smoke.
     
  5. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    These flood tests are really boring. Aside from adding more water every 15 minutes to keep half the coin covered, there's nothing to do.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    If you build your water dam right , no more adding is needed . Like this one

    Water dam 003 Resized.jpg

    LOL
     
  7. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    What dam? I just kept smearing that red crap all the way to the top of the speedbump.
     
  8. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    Oh, I'm funny. LOL

    I had flood tested it with a plug after the liner install, and again after the screed bed with the plug. During the second test with the plug, the water level dropped very slowly. I didn't know if it was because I had poked a hole in the liner while the top layer went in, of if it was migrating through the weep holes. That was really bothering me.

    A third test with a ball below the weep holes and I'm sure I have no leaks. I have so much confidence, I'm going into the shower building business..

















    In Vancouver. (I get 10% of the cut from my junk you have to fix).

    See, that's funny.
     
  9. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    Hey John, Tom from Utah back. While my flood testing went great, I'm a challenged tiler. Anyways, removing chipped tiles from my floor and I breached the kerdi, see pics. Sikaflex work here? hate to wait for kerdifix, could just thinset another layer down. Any advice appreciated!@! Salt Lake City-20140120-00059.jpg Salt Lake City-20140120-00060.jpg
     
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    If you patch with Kerdi or Kerdiband and maintain at least the 2" required overlap, it will be fine.
     
  11. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    The 2 inch is the issue. To get 2 inches I need to tear out more tile. Kerdi fix not a good soln?
     
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    KerdiFix would work. While other products might work, I think you'd be better off with the Kerdifix, if you can't just do it like a normal joint - make the patch as big as you can over the tear and get as much thinset off as possible in that area.
     
  13. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    thanks much for the reply Jim,
     
  14. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    versabond was used, kerdi is stuck like a champ everywhere I "strategically" removed tile, save for that breech. Thinking I was too aggressive cleaning out the thinset after busting up that tile. So maybe a kerdi fix patch over the cut (it's about 1/2 inch), let it cure a few days, then do a thinset patch over the whole area. Versabond kills my warranty anyways from what I understand so not sure how Herr Schluter will help.
     
  15. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    now that's some counsel! I made little chips in those 2x2 tiles because the boss of me wasn't pleased. And she'll never even use that shower! Thus taking the bastards up. Now after all is said and done, and retiled what about doing another leak test before grout. Just to be sure...
    Plan would be to let everything cure for a couple days after retiling (and after the repair) and flood it. Any benefit there? Then if I do that how long to wait until grout. Thanks again sir,
     
  16. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    Big red show vs big crescent wrench! Thanks again.
     
  17. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    Hi John,

    were you able to get updated pictures? Also, I read that the top of the curb needs to be at least 2" high from actual shower floor?

    thanks,
    Leo
     
  18. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    This is from our county website, page 3
    Section 417.5 Shower floors or receptors; amended to read as follows:

    Floor surfaces shall be constructed of impervious, noncorrosive, nonabsorbent and waterproof materials.

    Thresholds shall be a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) and a maximum of 9 inches (229 mm), measured from top of the drain to top of threshold or dam. Thresholds shall be of sufficient width to accommodate a minimum twenty-two (22) inch (559 mm) door.

    Exception: Showers designed to comply with ICC/ANSI A117.1.

    http://www.wylietexas.gov/departments/building_inspection/docs/2012_Final_Local_Amendments_IPC_2013.docx
     
  19. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    sure, here you go:

    Location:

    Wylie Municipal Complex, 300 Country Club Rd., Building 100, 2nd Floor
    Hours: Monday - Friday, 8:00 am - 5:00 pm CT
    Phone: 972.516.6420
     
  20. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    Thanks John,

    I'm not so concerned with having a curbless shower as I am with getting a lower than 6" kerdi curb. So what I will do, is use the kerdi pre sloped pan and use bricks instead of the foam curb. I will look into getting a solid curb top instead of tiling the top of curb; and then try to set to the minimum height of 2".

    the pan is about 1 1/2" thick around the perimeter; so after tile and with the thickness of the solid curb top, I think the outside height of the curb could be closer to 4".

    Also, I think that by using a solid curb top, if it overhangs a little bit, it will make the curb as a whole look less "boxy" and more aesthetically appealing.

    Leo
     
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