Water filter to remove lead, thalium, arsnic

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Benj

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Hello there, Can anyone recommend a good water filter to remove lead, thalium, and arsnic? Would be nice to be able to take out the pesticides and other crap too. thanks.
 

ditttohead

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Many filters will remove those, but... RO. Flow rates are key to effective filtration. A typical RO removes these. Thallium is removed in a similar manner as Arsenic.

I would recommend a higher end RO system. A permeate pump and high rejection membrane would be ideal.

It would take too many pages to show all of the potential contaminants, but here is a good list. http://www.impactwaterproducts.com/#!membrane-tech/c13qo
 

Benj

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Thanks for the replies. I assumed reverse osmosis would be needed but I've read about some other newer ones that aren't reverse osmosis that supposedly remove these contaminants. It's overwhelming looking at the variety of reverse osmosis systems out there. I assume the cheaper ones either remove less percentage of contaminants, have slower flow rates, or make up the difference on replacement filters. We are mostly looking for a system for the kitchen to clean water for drinking and cooking, however a friend of mine suggests a shower filter too. I don't see that many of the systems remove glyphosate (roundup) which I assume water everywhere in the US is contaminated with given the number of metric tons dumped on farms. I'll have to check out Impact water products, as I was impressed your not in the race to the bottom, as everyone else is. It's appauling that almost every product available these days is made to be cheap upfront, but not last long and end up costing 4X as much or more in the long run because you have to go buy another one in a month or a year instead of lasting for a lifetime.
 

Reach4

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Hello there, Can anyone recommend a good water filter to remove lead, thalium, and arsnic? Would be nice to be able to take out the pesticides and other crap too. thanks.
Have those things turned up in a test of your water? Tell us about your water source.

When you say " I don't see that many of the systems remove glyphosate (roundup) which I assume water everywhere in the US is contaminated with given the number of metric tons dumped on farms." I am wondering if you have information beyond pessimism.
 

Benj

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We sent a water sample from a faucet of one of our sources and it came up with the lead, thallium and arsenic...just below EPA allowed limits. We sent blood samples and all of these were borderline for a couple family members, presumably from the water. We are buying bottled water now. We haven't had the water tested for glyphosate but know others who have and it turns up. EPA limit is 700ppb which I think is ridiculous. I don't drink the cool aid of the EPA or any of the other corrupt government regulatory organizations, taking into consideration that there is peer reviewed literature on double blinded placebo controlled clinical trials that show the levels they allow are not healthy.
 

Akpsdvan

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And what about the food from the Store? What about the juices from the store? what are the levels ?

Why is it that the drinking water is the very First one thrown under the Bus on something like this?

What is the air quality like in your area? down wind from Seattle?
 

Benj

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We buy locally grown organic as much as possible. We eat very little processed food. The only reason the water came up is because of the levels that showed up in lab work and the fact that it tastes bad everywhere here...Gig Harbor, Tacoma, Puyallup, etc... Air quality seems decent on this side of town but downtown Tacoma near the port I imagine is pretty bad...smell is terrible there on some days. Another common source of toxins people don't think about is off gassing from home building materials, carpet, and furniture but our house is 90 years old and hasn't had much done on it recently. Everything has been painted inside multiple times so hopefully lead paint is well covered.
 

ditttohead

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Many "contaminants" in water are very natural. Arsenic is usually a naturally occurring element in water. Natural does not mean good. Many municipal water supplies only have water that is of very low quality due to natural contaminants. It is very expensive to treat water to bring to a high purity state, especially considering the vast majority of water is flushed down toilets or used to keep a lawn green. The regulations have to create a balance between cost and safety. The arsenic level in water was recently changed from 50 ppb to 10 ppb and the cost to some municipalities and homeowners was extremely expensive causing considerable fee hikes from the water suppliers. A reason your water may sometimes be just below the MCL is due to the municipalities blending their water to meet the requirements. If their supply of water has 18 PPB of arsenic, they would have to remove 100% of it in an ideal world, this is often not possible due to treatment cost (remember, flushing drinking water down the toilet...) So they will use a more expensive supply, or partially treat the water and reblend it to 9 ppb, giving themselves a 10% safety margin and maintain compliance. Very few countries have water like we have here. I travel all over the world, and it is a rare thing to be able to drink the water from the tap.

Regardless, a simple, high quality RO using components from known manufacturers and USA companies can ensure a safe drinking water supply at a very low cost. The average "drinking water" use is under 1 gallon per person per day, including water used to cook with. The average amount of water used, not including irrigation is 60+ gal. Irrigation can greatly exceed that. I hope this helps you understand why the water coming from your tap is for the most part safe, but additional treatment for your consumption is recommended.

As to the shower, a shower filter is somewhat effective, but the contact time required by most medias is inadequate to be effective. many shower filter use sulfates to cause the chlorine to become non oxidative. Personally, I prefer a properly designed and maintained whole house backwashing carbon system.

Sorry for the long winded response, just trying to help you understand why municipal water is the way it is.

Well water systems are not regulated to the same standards and I get well reports daily that I have to send back as virtually untreatable. others have 50+ PPB of arsenic, of 8 ppm of fluoride that the homeowners have been drinking for decades.
 

Reach4

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Thanks for the replies. I assumed reverse osmosis would be needed but I've read about some other newer ones that aren't reverse osmosis that supposedly remove these contaminants.
I would be skeptical of those. Distillation works too, but that is not new.
It's overwhelming looking at the variety of reverse osmosis systems out there. I assume the cheaper ones either remove less percentage of contaminants, have slower flow rates, or make up the difference on replacement filters.

I understand your need now. More expensive does not always mean better. Proprietary is more expensive usually, especially when you go to replace the filters. I don't have a specific recommendation. Ditttohead has some actionable suggestions, and if you send him a private message, maybe you will get a specific suggestion. Think about the form factor you are looking for. Undersink with a spigot placed in a hole in the sink would be a common configuration that will give a lot of bang for the buck. I would be looking to spend closer to $300 than 200. Some have a final stage that has an element that adds some minerals back for drinking.

Some people pipe the RO output to the ice maker.
 

Benj

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Thanks again dittohead and Reach4. I guess, in regards to processed municipality water it's a trade-off and finding the sweet-spot. It's crazy how much water is wasted per person/day in the US. When I was a kid we had water from a spring that went dry sometimes in the summer so we got good at water conservation. In terms of type of system, some references suggest distilling, as, coupled with a charcoal filter and preheating removes almost everything from the water. The preheating removes the VOCs with boiling point lower than water. I wonder what happens to them when the become vapor in the house and are inhaled? Some references say that distilled water is unhealthy because the process removes all the minerals, however, most mineral intake comes from food, not water. Proponents of drinking distilled water say that the fears about distilled water are largely unsupported by legitimate evidence and are marketing by companies that sell other types of systems. Distilling, I assume is more expensive, both up front for a good system and cost per gallon of water cleaned. With a reverse osmosis system, I assume I'd have to test the water before it's filtered, then test it after it's filtered to see how much the filtration system is removing. One also has to take into consideration that the filters are less efficient the longer they are used. I assume there is also variability on the quality of filters from manufacturer to the next and maybe even within different filters from the same manufacturer dependent on their quality control, where they source materials, etc...with US made filters and systems, on the whole, being better quality, as dittohead points out.

What are your thoughts on distillation versus RO systems? I have a post graduate degree and can easily find literature in my own specialty, however, the literature I can find on water filtration is largely from layperson sources, likely because I don't know where to look.
 

Reach4

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http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/reverse-osmosis-faq seems to be a pretty good discussion. What makes RO work so well is that water is the smallest liquid molecule. RO will be more power efficient. A little sodium making its way through is not so important from a health point of view. RO will do better taking out those organic molecules and either should be effective big atoms that you cite in your title.

RO without the pump, maybe 4x is "waste". But how much water do you drink in a day? A gallon per person is above the average. The permeate pump system Dittohead suggested will have less "waste" water. Some systems force the "waste" into the supply for the hot water tank, so "zero waste". I think that is under patent in the US still.

Is water wasted? The water you use is not lost. It reenters the cycle, and gets reused.
 

ditttohead

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Yay!!! Reach said it perfectly. The water is not "wasted". there is no new water on the earth recently, we have not had many collisions with comets in a while. A standard RO uses water pressure to do its job, pumping water uses energy, you pay for that when you buy water from your municipality. A distiller also uses energy in the form of heat generation.

An RO is simple, inexpensive, and low maintenance. A simple annual filter change, sanitization, and common sense can keep it running for many years. A permeate pump gives most RO systems much higher performance and less waste. Modern RO's can be set much more efficient than they currently are. you can also use the concentrate water for irrigation (check with your local codes) making it basically zero waste. Do not bother with the systems that pump the water back in the hot water system of the house... neat idea, completely overkill, complex, uses a pump (electricity), and how is it zero waste? it uses electricity...
 
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