Water cuts off intermittently

[Gene Pace]

My house is on private well. I am not a plumber, just a homeowner. Recently, house water stops running for 30 seconds to a minute, then comes back on.
Several times, my water heater dumped water out the T&P valve.
Some facts that MAY be related:
Several weeks prior, I shocked the well with bleach.
When the water heater did its dump, I called the plumber that installed the heater as it is under warranty. Plumber said the water pressure is 90 psi and too high. I bought a pressure gauge and measured 40psi at the same spigot he used. I then adjusted the pump switch down to 35/55. It was 40/60. No change. However, I did not lower tank pressure to 2 psi below cut on. Tank pressure is at 38. So, my thoughts.
Could I have broken loose some crud during the bleach shocking process and clogged the line going into the pressure switch? I have ordered a new pressure switch.
Why would the water heater dump out the T&P valve? Temps are set to 130. The house has a softener attached to a softener loop. Also has a PumpTec Plus pump protection box. Solid green light when pressure switch closes.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[Reach4]

If you had 90 psi, you would turn the water pressure down, which you did. However it seems very likely that the 90 psi reading was in error.

"Dump" out of the P&T valve, to me, implies a significant flow rather than a dribble. Is that the case? I would suspect the T&P valve. You can put a garden hose thread pressure gauge on the drain valve for the pressure tank. If the water only dribbles out after using hot water, then I would expect you have a check valve between the water heater and the pressure tank. In that case, you would need to add a big-enough thermal expansion tank at the WH.

You could show us a picture that includes the input to the pressure tank, the pressure switch, and the pipe from the well. However it sounds as if you know how to adjust and measure the water pressure.

A check valve after the softener and before the WH has some advantage. So maybe that is what you have.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gene Pace]

Here are some pics of my system: 2963 &2964 are the pressure tank in the garage; the rest are the pump head, pressure switch control box and Pump-Tec protection in a well shed 50 feet behind house. I lowered the pressure switch to 35/55 and lowered the tank pressure t 33. Water low still stops momentarily. It stops for about a minute, then restarts by itself. Then water flows normally. The dumping of the T&P relief valve seems to have stopped.

 

[LLigetfa]

Pressure spiking could be from expansion if there is a check valve between the pressure tank and hot water tank. Some water treatment systems use check valves.

If you lower the pressure switch settings, you need to let some air out of the pressure tank or else the tank can empty before the pump comes on. I would just restore the original setting since it is not the cause of the TPR popping off.

Shocking the well can disturb sediment that can then build up under the diaphragm of the pressure switch causing it to not start the pump at the desired pressure.

BTW, your pressure reading was likely just a moment in time and it could be spiking when you're not watching. You could connect a gauge that has a tattler hand to see how high it spikes.

Also, when measuring the air pressure, that is a different gauge than what you measure the water pressure with. The two need to be calibrated.

 

[Gene Pace]

I intend on replacing the pressure switch when it comes in. I will inspect for blockage and clean any debris. The switch I am replacing (Square D, 9013GSG2J24) is apparently in demand and won't be in til June 6th. I will set pressure to recommended 40/60 with tank at 38. I did notice something strange while lowering the adjustment on the switch. While manually energizing the contacts with power on, the control box made a double clicking noise instead of a single click, leading me to suspect the pressure switch was not making an initial good contact.

 

[Fitter30]

What is that flex hose from that tank back to system? Is that the ex tank?

 

[Gene Pace]

There are no flex hoses on my system. Not sure what you mean. Which picture?

 

[Reach4]

The picture that shows the wellhead has some elements that I don't understand. The tan tube/pipe spouting from the top of the well seal. Has a nylon tie. White box near the upper right of the picture.

Also, the manifold that mounts the pressure switch may include a check valve, and those could cause problems.

Do you think the pump stops because the well runs out of water? Or is the pump slow to start because the pressure switch does not click on early enough?

 

[Bannerman]

Your pressure switch is located way too far away from the pressure tank. You said the well shed (where the PS is located) is 50' behind the house, but the pressure tank is located in the garage.

Because of flow resistance through the pipe between the pressure switch and the pressure tank, your pressure switch is not correctly sensing change in the pressure tank pressure. Since the PS is currently sensing higher pressure directly from the pump, this will cause the switch to prematurely shut off the pump before the pressure tank is filled. Because the pressure at the PS will become lower again while the pressure tank is continuing to fill, this is likely causing the PS to reactivate the pump again, just after it had been shut off, which I suspect is the reason for the double clicking you heard. Short cycling will quickly reduce the pump's lifespan.

To operate correctly, the pressure switch must sense the pressure directly from the pressure tank. Either the pressure switch will need to be relocated to the garage, or the pressure tank will need to be moved to the well shed.

It appears the bent tube protruding from the top of the well cap is the air vent for the well. It seems the downward facing end of that tube is not connected to the water supply line from the pump, but remains open and pointed downward to prevent objects, rain, dust etc from falling in. If it is open, it should rightly be screened to prevent entry of insects and rodents.

 

[Gene Pace]

The system, as you see it has been installed and working since 2002. The symptoms I described have just now begun. Bannerman, you are correct about that bent tube. I have also wished the pressure switch were installed in the garage, but for different reasons. Location, convenience. Reach4, the white boxes are the well control box and Pump-Tec pump protection box. I apologize for the quality of the photos. At this point, I believe there are still at least two unknowns. Bad switch or debris clog. I will replace switch and look for debris. Then I will proceed from there. Probably break down and call the well man. I am still getting plenty of water after it comes back on. The water usually stops about 2 or 3 minutes after it is initially turned on and only once. It always comes back on by itself after about a minute and stays on for the duration. Thank you all and stay tuned.

 

[Reach4]

You have a 3-wire pump, and there is a start capacitor in the control box. Those get weak with age. If you have a weak capacitor, the symptom is that the pump does not start sometimes, and that often will trip the breaker. So rather than be pumping and then shut off, it is a failure to start.

A thing that can delay both start and stop is to have the nipple/tube to the pressure tank be mostly clogged.

If you are shutting off due to dry well detected, there will be an indicator light on the pumptec box.

 

[LLigetfa]

The water usually stops about 2 or 3 minutes after it is initially turned on and only once.

That would have been good info to post much earlier. It would also be good to know if the switch contacts are open or closed during that 2 or 3 minutes. If they are closed, then possibly the pump has gone into thermal overload which will reset itself.

Since the pressure switch is connected by a union, it would be very easy to remove it and clean out the riser pipe.

 

[Reach4]

Page 9 of the Pumptec Plus manual tells how to interpret the lights. Page 8 has the calibration procedure.

https://franklinwater.com/media/248772/223424101_pumptec_plus_owners_manual_web.pdf

 

[Valveman]

Like was said your switch is too far from the tank. It may have worked up to now but it isn't right. Someone added a Ray Robert's snubber to the pressure switch line to help with the hammering of the switch that happens when it it too far from the tank. However, that snubber is now clogged, which is causing the prv to pop off and the delay in water at the faucets.

If you install a CSV1A-3 first thing off the well head you can add a 4.5 gallon pressure tank and a pressure switch to the side and/or bottom of the CSV1A-3. That way you would get the switch close to a tank, and your main tank can stay where it is. Plus, the CSV would give you strong constant pressure, eliminate water hammer, and make the pump last several times longer than normal.