Washer drain by handyman

[lottia]

The stub

is 2" galvanized. The outside diameter of the CI hub is about 4". I can't see much of the CI pipe itself but it looks like about 2.5" OD. It has also become apparent that this connection has a very slow leak, so I should replace it. So...

I'd appreciate more advice on

• removing the lead and oakum
• the correct Fernco donut

Thanks.
l

 

[Redwood]

That T looked more like it was in a recliner than on it's back, I'm surprised it wasn't upside down.

If it was upside down it would have been a handyman trap.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[lottia]

Not as easy as it sounds!

...drilling out enough lead and prying both the pipe and the lead/oakum out isn't too bad.

Ha ha! Do you want to hear how many drill bits I've bent and broken so far? Makes me suspect how easily I'll be able follow your next suggestions!

find the proper sized rubber Fernco donut, and ... just a press together connection for your new abs...

Too bad there isn't a smilie for "exhausted!"

l

 

[Jadnashua]

The smaller bits can't take any torque. It very much depends on how close to vertical you can get so you're drilling only the lead. If you catch the cast iron or galvanized, it's easy to break a bit. It's a tossup...if the stub is short, you can get the drill and chuck and go straight down, but then you don't have much of any leverage to rock it out later. If it is a long piece, you have lots of leverage, but still have to get enough lead out so it can move some.

Unfortunately, choosing the right donut is almost impossible to say since cast iron hubs vary from foundry to foundry, and one year to another. If you look on the Fenco site, they have them in sizes that vary in probably 1/16th of an inch or less. You really need to measure once you get the lead out...you might have to order one.

If you try to put in one that is too large, it's a pain to insert everything. If it's too loose, it can leak. Just like the 3-bears, you want it just right.

 

[lottia]

What I learned from doing it without further advice:

1. Smaller drill bits ARE better!

2. Make rings of holes along inside of hub & outside of pipe, fold the edges in with a screwdriver, bash, pry, etc.

3. Toward the end, long-nosed pliers, a narrow but strong screwdriver, and a small sledge hammer help to loosen and remove the lead in pieces.

4. Eventually the pipe loosens and the rest of the lead comes out in one piece, but nothing like the nice round ring shown in the very first post of this thread!

5. Stuff something removable into the waste pipe so the oakum and bits of lead don't plug it when you at last pull out the galvanized pipe.

6. If you use a shop vac to clear the drain after NOT using a plug, water can get sucked up into the shop vac from the drain


Now, on to selecting the Fernco fitting and emplacing it!

l

p.s. It only took 7 hours to wrestle loose the lead and oakum!

 

[lottia]

What I learned from doing it without further advice:

1. Smaller drill bits ARE better!

2. Make rings of holes along inside of hub & outside of pipe, fold the edges in with a screwdriver, bash, pry, etc.

3. Toward the end, long-nosed pliers, a narrow but strong screwdriver, and a small sledge hammer help to loosen and remove the lead in pieces.

4. Eventually the pipe loosens and the rest of the lead comes out in one piece, but nothing like the nice round ring shown in the very first post of this thread!

5. Stuff something removable into the waste pipe so the oakum and bits of lead don't plug it when you at last pull out the galvanized pipe.

6. If you use a shop vac to clear the drain after NOT using a plug, water can get sucked up into the shop vac from the drain


Now, on to selecting the Fernco fitting and emplacing it!

l

p.s. It only took 7 hours to wrestle loose the lead and oakum!

 

[lottia]

How (& where in Seattle) to buy donuts?

What measurements do I need when ordering?

It looks like the CI is 2 3/8" OD, hard to tell ID, b/c of scuzz and rust. Hub is 4" OD, 3" ID.​

Is there a Mission distributor in Seattle?

l

 

[Jadnashua]

You need two things - the ID of the hub, and the size and type of pipe you want to insert in the middle. Scrape as much crud out of the hub as you can before you measure. I think they have instructions on their website - www.fernco.com. You should be able to find the part number you need, then call around to find one.

I took a 4" t out of a hub where I couldn't get all the way around with the drill because of joists and a plaster ceiling I was trying to save. Took me much longer. Took another one apart, same size where I had access, and only took about 1/2-hour. Just depends on access. BTW, I ended up just snapping that one off since I could not get the proper sized fitting in time (I was doing this at my mother's house, 400 miles away from my home). Converted it to PVC...

 

[mold-griz]

Terry,,,,,thanks for taking the time to do this web site! I have a question for you,,,,,,,,,,in this picture you are showing the new work you did,,,,,,why are you using black pvc? what is the difference between the black and the white? also,,,,what is a santee?

 

[Smellslike$tome]

1. Smaller drill bits ARE better!

2. Make rings of holes along inside of hub & outside of pipe, fold the edges in with a screwdriver, bash, pry, etc.

3. Toward the end, long-nosed pliers, a narrow but strong screwdriver, and a small sledge hammer help to loosen and remove the lead in pieces.

4. Eventually the pipe loosens and the rest of the lead comes out in one piece, but nothing like the nice round ring shown in the very first post of this thread!

5. Stuff something removable into the waste pipe so the oakum and bits of lead don't plug it when you at last pull out the galvanized pipe.

6. If you use a shop vac to clear the drain after NOT using a plug, water can get sucked up into the shop vac from the drain


Now, on to selecting the Fernco fitting and emplacing it!

l

p.s. It only took 7 hours to wrestle loose the lead and oakum!

Remove the pipe first from the hub and the lead and oakum is much easier to remove. Seal the line first and then use a hammer and cold chisel to break the pipe. The cast iron pipe is somewhat brittle and will break. You've already sealed the line downstream so if any of the the pipe falls down the hole use a magnet (either the extendable telescoping type or the kind that is on a flex cable of about 2', I prefer the latter) to retrieve it. Once the pipe is out of the hub you can use a hammer and a large bladed screwdriver to pry the relatively soft lead out of the hub. Once the lead and oakum are out scrape the sides of the hub to remove the large debris followed by a wire wheel on your drill to work on the finer debris. DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF STONE OR GRINDING WHEEL or you may not be able to get a proper seal with the donut.

Sounds like this is essentially what you did except for removing the pipe from the hub first.

 

[lottia]

Remove the pipe first from the hub and the lead and oakum is much easier to remove. Seal the line first and then use a hammer and cold chisel to break the pipe. The cast iron pipe is somewhat brittle and will break. You've already sealed the line downstream so if any of the the pipe falls down the hole use a magnet (either the extendable telescoping type or the kind that is on a flex cable of about 2', I prefer the latter) to retrieve it. Once the pipe is out of the hub you can use a hammer and a large bladed screwdriver to pry the relatively soft lead out of the hub. Once the lead and oakum are out scrape the sides of the hub to remove the large debris followed by a wire wheel on your drill to work on the finer debris. DO NOT USE ANY KIND OF STONE OR GRINDING WHEEL or you may not be able to get a proper seal with the donut.

Sounds like this is essentially what you did except for removing the pipe from the hub first.

Thanks for the ex post facto advice. I was afraid to break the galvanized pipe b/c I was concerned about damaging the CI or the concrete floor. Next time (if there is one), I may take my Dad's advice and cut slots in the galvanized then remove it. Sounds like a whole lot faster than picking away at the lead with a drill!

l

 

[Gardner]

I think code around here would frown on supporting the old steel pipe with new ABS. Clearly the steel vent was supported somehow, as it was hanging in mid-air before this repair. What did you do to ensure the steel was in fact properly supported so its weight does not rest on the ABS? When the bad change was made, is it likely that the steel had sagged down being unsupported, and there are now stresses in the piping in the levels above that would not originally have be there, due to the now improperly supported steel pipe?

There is another floor of plumbing above what is seen in the picture.
You could hang an engine block from the 1-1/2" pipe coming down. The ABS pipe isn't heavy enough to pull down the rest of the house onto it.
Reply by Terry

 

[Terry]

When I remove the lead, I drill some out with a drill, and then pry with a flat blade screwdriver. On a small hub for 2" pipe, it comes out fairly quickly for me.
If more length is left on the pipe, it also allows for some leverage and movement, which can be a help.
Some of what I do, takes some strength,

Terry at 50

 

[lottia]

Next question: ABS between two fixed points

The lead is out, the hub clean, the donut in!

Now I'm wondering how I can install the ABS when the connections at both ends are fixed. With a bit of twising and wiggling I can get a "dry fit", but I'm concerned that when I apply the ABS cement I won't have much leaway.

What's the usual procedure? Flexible connectors?

l

 

[Jadnashua]

SOmetimes it's easiest to use a no-hub connector to make the last connection between the new and the old if you can't move things. If you loosen the reinforing ring, you can slide the whole thing down or fold over half of it, get things lined up, flip the rubber sleeve, then slide the reinforcement back over it and tighten it up.

 

[Smellslike$tome]

Thanks for the ex post facto advice. I was afraid to break the galvanized pipe b/c I was concerned about damaging the CI or the concrete floor. Next time (if there is one), I may take my Dad's advice and cut slots in the galvanized then remove it. Sounds like a whole lot faster than picking away at the lead with a drill!

l

Sorry I was late to this thread. Also I didn't catch that the stub was galvanized. Galvanized is not brittle enough to break but you are correct that it can be cut with a recip saw. If it's a longer stub it's generally easier to work it back and forth, even hit it with a 3 lb. hammer until you can pull the whole thing out. If that doesn't work then cut it off close to the hub then stick the saw blade inside the pipe to cut through the pipe along it's length in a couple of places then pry it out with a flat bladed screwdriver.

 

[Smellslike$tome]

I think code around here would frown on supporting the old steel pipe with new ABS. Clearly the steel vent was supported somehow, as it was hanging in mid-air before this repair. What did you do to ensure the steel was in fact properly supported so its weight does not rest on the ABS? When the bad change was made, is it likely that the steel had sagged down being unsupported, and there are now stresses in the piping in the levels above that would not originally have be there, due to the now improperly supported steel pipe?

If it was properly installed there will be a riser clamp supporting the weight of the pipe. The clamp would be in a location not shown in the photograph. With the riser clamp in place this should be a perfectly legitimate installation. The only thing that may be questionable is that it looks as if the washing machine may be crown vented but I can't tell for certain from the picture. Also, I'm almost afraid to ask but what's up with the water supplies?

 

[lottia]

No-hub connector on dry vent?

SOmetimes it's easiest to use a no-hub connector to make the last connection between the new and the old if you can't move things. If you loosen the reinforing ring, you can slide the whole thing down or fold over half of it, get things lined up, flip the rubber sleeve, then slide the reinforcement back over it and tighten it up.

Does one need a banded connector, if the piping is to a dry vent? I have two vent pipes and 3 drains (one is vented on the upper floor) coming together in a small space. All existing pipes are galvanized, so there's no wiggle on that side of the new ABS piping.

If the connector could be a "sleeve," without the "stop" that separates the two pipes, I could slide the whole thing out of the way, then position it after the pipe ends were adjacent. Sound OK?

l
[Sorry, no digital camera at this house.]

 

[Terry]

You should use banded.
You drop the metal sleeve down, and roll the rubber inner liner back to allow the pipe to move into postition. When in place, unroll the rubber sleeve, and move the metal exterior over the sleeve.

The reason for the metal jacket, is to prevent the pipes from shifting.
A coupling made only of rubber, doesn't hold the pipes in place over time.

 

[Chel_in_IL]

I think the guy who used to own my house did that work...

BTW, are there any websites where people post pictures of interesting home repair work such as this? Or, is there a thread on this site appropriate for these little pieces of humor? I have a few of my own I'd like to submit.