Wall tiling and wall hanging toilet

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by wallhanger, Sep 15, 2018 at 9:41 AM.

  1. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Kansas
    This is a tiling behind or around ? wall toilet question. My actual question is at the end below the dotted line. the stuff before the dotted line is my description of my situation.

    An elderly family member has a house built by a professional plumber in the 50' s or 60's.
    (My DIY skill levels are I can saw a crooked line with a skill saw and get a drywall screw in the wall with a drill.)

    I am involved after the plumber did initial surgery and now wants carpentry work.

    The plumbing is cast iron. The master bathroom has a wall hung toilet. the toilet broke loose from the wall. The plumber opened the wall up. The opening is about 25" square. I am not at the house now, so I cant measure, but I think it is a 2 x 6 wall with 16" centers.

    Studying the edge of the plumbers opening, except for the vertical section the plumber opened, the basic wall construction appears to be a layer of 1/2" sheetrock overlaid by a layer of 3/8" sheetrock and then tiled from floor to approximately 4' high.

    The 25" (actually 25 1/2 plus or minus) opening is roughly centered on one pair of studs. Between the studs is the large vertical cast iron vent and waste pipe. In the area behind the toilet, the bottom layer was 1/2 plywood instead of sheet rock. As near as I can figure, he ran a strip of 1/2 plywood floor to ceiling over the vent pipe, came up to both sides with 1/2 sheet rock and then overlaid the whole thing with 3/8.

    I have some reservations about what I see with the repairs in the wall. One of the flanges which holds up the large metal backing plate has been attached at the top by two (at a guess) 1/4" screws instead of it's original bolt. I think it's bottom bolt remains in place. At any rate, the upper flanges have been reattached and the large metal plate is on the wall, although in order to have the bolts aligned properly, the plate is not square in the opening.

    The plumber told my wife he now wants a new surface over the opening. The surface is to come flush to the edges of the large toilet mounting plate. I have read about something called concrete backer board.

    What it looks to me like I can do is finish removing all the exposed 1/2" plywood in the hole and then create two new pieces of 25 1/4" wide plywood backing and fit them in place. Then I think I could overlay that with 1/4" backer board instead of 3/8" sheetrock.

    That brings us to the tiling. (We can't match the original tile, we'll have to come up with something else. And I know absolutely nothing about tiling so this may get tricky.)

    The plumber on site specifically told my wife NOT to tile until after the toilet was set because we wanted to tile up to the toilet. When I called the plumbing company later for clarifications and instructions, the person to whom I spoke (I think the owner of the company) Said that was incorrect and we are to tile completely. And that also appears to mean putting tile over the metal mounting plate. They closed Fri evening for the weekend.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So, when prepping for a wall hung toilet, do you tile before or after the toilet is hung on the wall. And can tile be glued to the large metal plates that hold up wall toilets?
     
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    These are standard measurements needed for a replacement wall hung toilet as done in the 60's.

    [​IMG]

    The horn for the seal should be extending 5/8" from the flat washers that the bowl mounts against.

    [​IMG]

    You may or may not have room to tile behind the bowl. It would be nice if you do as it makes a much nicer finished job.

    [​IMG]

    Here is an installation with wall paper.
     
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  4. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Kansas
  5. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Kansas
    Sorry, Im a technologically challenged old fart. Couldn't see how to type after I put in the picture.

    Thanks Terry,
    My wife sent me a picture of what I have to work with. The plumber (the employee working on site) told my wife he wants a wall surface flush with the metal plate before he mounts the toilet. I haven't the strength or technical ability to cope with that toilet, so I just have to trust that part of things.

    I think your one picture answers my tile question, if we want to put tile back up, we need to get tile up sorta close to the porcelain wall flange, but not under it. I can try to make a cardboard template to hook over the bolts to facilitate that. That is going to require running one or two bands of tile across the metal plate which will be behind the tank. And I'll have to see, I expect the metal flange to be slightly higher than the wall surface at the top.

    I know nothing about tiling, tile cutting, or tile gluing and have no tools for it. They have a large party of house guests coming next weekend so we may wind up with a non-tiled fix that will not look as nice, just to get the plumbers scheduled back in time to get functional plumbing by Friday.
     
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Normally with these, you have backing nuts with backing large washers that the bowl goes up against. In a perfect world, the bowl never really touches the wall and it's supported up against the washers.
    Tile doesn't have to be in the middle there. You can cover that but it's covered by the bowl anyway. I would tile before the bowl is set on the wall carrier.
     
  7. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Kansas
    At the bottom, the toilet is going to be resting only on the bolts and against the wall surface. Those bottom brackets are resting on rotted wood and would provide no support for either wall or bolts. I might be able to get some fresh wood under them if that would be good, not sure if I can fasten them down.
     
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    The bracket MUST be well supported as the toilet with a person sitting on it is a huge lever with a lot of weight on it. You need to do whatever is required to make the bracket solid.

    As Terry mentioned, the toilet itself doesn't need to actually touch the wall. YOu'd put a nut and washer on the stud, and the washer would provide the contact point with the back side of the toilet. Then, you use another washer and nut on the outside of the toilet to sandwich it up against the one inside. There are limits on the depth from the finished wall for the bracket so that the thing can be properly sealed for the waste. So, as long as the bolts and the waste connection are open, the rest can be tiled. You'd typically get the nuts adjusted so that the toilet would be close to the finished wall so it can be caulked to keep things clean and look good without putting any pressure on the finished surface at all.
     
  9. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Kansas
  10. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Kansas
    I'll see what I can do. You cant see it well in the picture I have, but the bolts are anchored in cast iron flaps that are part of the overall grey cast iron fitting that has the toilet opening and the sink drains coming into it. The wood under the little bracket at the left next to the water line is rotted to the point that I don't think there is any support. For the last however many years, the main support for that bolt has been the rigidity of the cast iron forging. I think I can get fresh wood in between the brackets and the wall base to provide vertical support. I am not sure the wall base over by the water line is solid enough to screw anything into, so I doubt I can make those brackets provide any horizontal support for the wall. The plumber did not say anything about the brackets to my wife so he was apparently not concerned about them. I'll study on that some more today.

    There is a small pile of hardware on the floor by the toilet so I expect the bolts and washers you and Terry are talking about are there. After all the replies, there is something I would like to see different in this installation/repair, but I don't have any metal skills or supply sources to do it. I'm just here to do the best I can with some carpentry work and tiling if I can learn how to do it in time. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018 at 9:00 AM
  11. wallhanger

    wallhanger New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Kansas
    Still working. After reading and rereading the posts several times I think I finally understand about the backing nuts and washers. I've gotten the bottom allthread cleaned up and am going to inflict the plumber with nuts and washers on the bottom, whether he wants them or not. The wall is not level because the studs are skewed. I was going to do 3/8 sheetrock on the left side and 1/4 on the right so the tile would joint smoothly. The 3/8 is too thick for the bottom left corner bolt of the toilet-haven't figured out how to deal with that yet.

    The top two bolts stick out 2 1/2 instead of 2 1/8 and I cant change that, but with all the instruction you have provided I bought a little short level and am working to get the bottom flat washers vertical with the bolt centers on the top plate. And putting the bottom bolt length at 2 3/8 to 2 1/2.

    There will not be time to tile before the toilet needs to be reinstalled, my wife will have to install tile later up to the edges of it. So we wont get tile fully behind the bowl.

    I'll have to get the wall surface finished tomorrow some way. I'll get my wife to take 2-3 pictures so you can see what I did.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018 at 9:43 PM
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