Vintage toilet with no tank question

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Palladio

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First of all, thanks for setting up this great site, it's my first time here.

I am renovating a 1931 bathroom in an Art Deco apartment building in NYC. The bathroom was renovated at some time probably in the early 1950's, judging by the fixtures. Most of the fixtures are worn or pitted and need to be replaced. A very poorly performing American Standard low rise toilet (probably from the 1980s) is also currently in place. The damn thing takes two flushes just about every time.

I would like to keep the bathroom as "vintage" as possible and am either trying to re-plate worn fixtures or replace them with salvage parts in better condition.

I need a low rise toilet, no more than 28" tall, because it has to fit under a casement window that swings open at 29".

Most of the toilets of that era I am finding are too tall. I was in a salvage place today and found a very nice vintage toilet of the sort that doesn't have a tank - like the ones you see today in commercial applications. What are these called? Could something like this be fitted to residential application? Are there certain water pressure requirements that I need to be aware of?

Something like this would fit very well in the space, but I'm note sure if it would function properly in my building.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

Jadnashua

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Many of those commercial toilets are designed for a large water supply line. It would work if you have the proper sized supply...you might, and you might not. Plus, the water pressure has to be decent...not anything super high or out of the ordindary, though.

The toto Guinevere is 28-3/8", and I'm sure there are others that would fit. http://totousa.com/admin/upload/pdfspc/s-ms974224cfg-0406.pdf
 

Palladio

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Many of those commercial toilets are designed for a large water supply line. It would work if you have the proper sized supply...you might, and you might not. Plus, the water pressure has to be decent...not anything super high or out of the ordindary, though.

The toto Guinevere is 28-3/8", and I'm sure there are others that would fit. http://totousa.com/admin/upload/pdfspc/s-ms974224cfg-0406.pdf

I've been googling and I think the toilet type I'm talking about is called a "flushometer". I'll have to check with a plumber to see if I've got the required water pressure.

As far as tank/gravity toilets, I've narrowed it down to three that are all under 28" tall:

1. Toto Ultramax - this one seems to get some of the best reviews
2. Toto Soiree - this one has a new "double cyclone" design, but I'm not sure if it's any better than the Ultramax
3. Kallista Michael Smith "Loft" (made by Kohler I think)

I really prefer the look of the Kallista, as it's a bit more "vintage". However, I'm concerned that it might not perform nearly as well as the more modern looking Toto designs. I also am not wild about the plastic seats on the Toto toilets.
 

Jadnashua

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You can put any elongated seat on pretty much any elongated toilet, if that is a big deal.
 

Palladio

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You can put any elongated seat on pretty much any elongated toilet, if that is a big deal.

So I could just change out the plastic seat then. Does Toto make a porcelain seat? The problem with putting on a different seat is that it would likely be hard to match the exact white color unless it was from the same manufacturer.
 

Palladio

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So how about this 1930's vintage Crane toilet?

It would fit my application in terms of height, and would look correct for the era of the apartment.

It might also be nice in that it is pre water restriction, so maybe it would have more water in the bowl and less of the outhouse odor problem?
 

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Jadnashua

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A good performing toilet does NOT smell...the low-flow toilets got a bad rep because the early ones weren't well engineered (and there are still a bunch of them out there!).

I would NOT consider an old toilet like that that could use 5-7 gallons of water to flush when the best of the new ones only uses a little over a gallon.

You said you had 29", and wanted it less than 28". That's not enough to put something on the top of the tank, so as long as the window clears, you really have up to just below 29" and there are at least a few that can fit.

As to color matching a toilet seat to the bowl...as they age, they often don't anyways...

You can find one that is close. I've not seen any seat made of porcelain; wood, plastic, even metal (talk about cold!), composite, but not porcelain.
 

Rombo

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a porcelain would crack within the first hour of being on the toilet
 

Palladio

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a porcelain would crack within the first hour of being on the toilet

Sorry, my ignorance. I'm just thinking of most of the toilet seats from older toilets, that are very solid (painted wood maybe?). The new plasticky ones look cheap to me. I also don't like sitting on the toilet cover and feeling it flex.

I guess they do have the advantage that they don't slam shut as badly as they are lighter.
 

Palladio

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A good performing toilet does NOT smell...the low-flow toilets got a bad rep because the early ones weren't well engineered (and there are still a bunch of them out there!).

I would NOT consider an old toilet like that that could use 5-7 gallons of water to flush when the best of the new ones only uses a little over a gallon.

I don't have much experience with the newer 1.6 gallon toilets, mine are all pre 1992 or whatever. I do know that when I travel to Europe, most of the toilets are so low volume that smell is an issue. If there is not enough water in the bowl to completely cover the waste when it drops in, you are going to have air contact and that "outhouse" smell. That is what I find 90 percent of the time with European toilets. I'm all for saving water (my business has spent a ton of money on recyclling), but as a single guy, I don't want my apartment smelling like the sewer if I have to drop one while a girl is staying over.

Damn, I wish there was just a place I could go "test drive" one of these new toilets to see how they work in person.
 

Peanut9199

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Toto makes a Maple Wood soft close seat if you don't want plastic but you pay for it.
SS303-CP Regular rim
SS304-CP Elongated rim
 

Jadnashua

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The toilets in the apartment I had in Germany essentially didn't have a water spot, and yes, until you flushed, it could smell. Many, but not all, of the low flow toilets have a decent sized water spot.

Most toilets are over-filled...the new Eco series from Toto much less so. Think of the toilet bowl as a pitcher...you can keep adding liquid to it, but once it gets to the point it will overflow the spout (or in the case of the toilet, the weir or outlet), adding more water just goes down the drain - it doesn't raise the level.
 

Jimbo

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Closet flushometers require a 1" water supplyline. The pressure does not have to be anything special, but they require line which will deliver a very large instantaneouls GPM number. A 1/2" line or even a 3/4" line, is usually not adequate.
 

Palladio

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Closet flushometers require a 1" water supplyline. The pressure does not have to be anything special, but they require line which will deliver a very large instantaneouls GPM number. A 1/2" line or even a 3/4" line, is usually not adequate.

Thanks for the information. Given what the plumber just quoted me to install a regular toilet at that location (over $1000), there is no way I'm going to able to afford installing a larger water line. The flushometer idea is kaput.
 
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