Vessel Sink, Concrete Deck and too short drain-Solutions???

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Renaissance Lady, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hey there Terry et al,

    Without paying about $150 for a solution, i'd like to find a fix. Here the background.

    I made a concrete c-top for a TINY 1/2 bath for the son of a friend. It's approx 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 deep, with a china vessel sink that sits on-top (2'' depth, with an overflow hole). The total depth from the sink and c-top barely allows the coupling nut to catch the threads.

    My question is...does the drain need to set directly against the sink or can it set below the countertop? I'm thinking is can set below the c-top. I could purchase an extension piece for the drain, or a whole new drain (though a costly choice).
    Here's the thing...this young man has had several problems with his plumber, this countertop is only one. Secondly, the plumber failed to let this young man know that the replacement pop-up drain he purchased to replace the pull up drain, was the wrong type for the sink. He purchased one without an overflow, and the plumber was more concerned with the depth, than with the fact it's the wrong style drain. I picked up on it yesterday when he sent me pictures.

    The answer to the above question gives me different options, one includes cutting a larger hole into the concrete c-top, which I am loath to do. The young man is willing to use the pull-up drain option in lieu of the pop-up if we can find a simple solution. If not, he'll have to take the hit for the new drain.

    Anyone please advise.
    Deborah
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  2. OLD TIMER

    OLD TIMER Member

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    May 18, 2019
    Location:
    FLORIDA
    Don't cut a hole. post pictures, someone has the answer.
     
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  4. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

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    May 22, 2015
    Location:
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    I can't post pics until later tonight. Trying to get some answers in the meantime.
     
  5. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    A sink drain with an overflow seals at the bottom with a rubber gasket pressed up from the nut on the threaded shaft of the drain body. That rubber gasket must contact the bottom of the sink. The difference between a drain with or without overflow is just a hole machined into the side of the drain to allow the water from the overflow to drain away. So if the drain provided by the plumber is long enough to work, a crafty person could drill or cut a hole in the side of the drain for that overflow.
     
  6. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Nothing was provided by the plumber. The pop-up drain purchased without the overflow doesn't have enough threads to properly secure the drain. I'm going over to the young man's this evening to see of the original pull-up drain (which came with the faucet) can work. If it doesn't, I'm back to finding a solution.

    But I gather from your answer that I may in fact have to drill a larger hole in the concrete, if the gasket does have space under the vessel sink and above the concrete.
     
  7. plumber69

    plumber69 In the Trades

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    Location:
    Prince Rupert, British Columbia
    Usually the po drain that comes with faucets have the overflow holes, so most likely it wont work. Looks like you need something like this
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The pull-up drain that came with the faucet does have the overflow feature. The pop-up drain that was purchased separately did not. They wanted a pop-up style drain and weren't informed enough when they purchased it. But I want to be prepared when I go see the original drain in person tonight to know what my options are.

    The cost of a new fixture is mostly because of the Antique Bronze finish.

    Pictures to follow tonight. I really need to see what clearances I have for the sink drain outlet and coupling nut, and whether a separately purchased drain extension could solve my problem

    I'm really interested to know how marble c-top and vessel sinks handle this.
     
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Faucets and vessels aren't normally sold as a pair. Somebody needs to coordinate that aspect of the project, hopefully before a hole is ever cut.

    I have the best luck on vessel drains with those that have a high enough pop-up on a non-overflow vessel to allow it to drain properly.
    On a vessel with an overflow, you need drain that takes the overflow. Rarely does a pop-up from a standard faucet work with a vessel.
     
  10. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Terry,

    I didn't advise or purchase the faucet or vessel sink; the young man and his wife had, before I ever met them. I made the concrete c-top, with the holes formed into the pour. I have made concrete tops before, but in different applications and didn't think about the placing of the coupling nut. I am not remaking the top, but figuring out how I can put what they bought with what I made. If I have to purchase a tile hole saw and cut a bigger hole for the coupling nut, I will, but before going that route, I want to see my other options.
     
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The lav drain will seal to the bottom of the sink basin. Then it's placed on top of the counter.
     
  12. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I understand that, but from now seeing it in person, there is not enough space under the vessel sink to attach the drain.

    I will have to drill a larger hole into the concrete c-top. I have a bit on order to complete this. Fingers crossed that it doesn't crack. SLOW and STEADY will be needed for success.
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Are you saying that you would need a drain (with overflow) with the thread at least 3-1/2 below the drain to a allow installing without drilling?

    What is the drilling going to do -- clear out a recess for the nut and tool, so you can get by with the shorter thread on a drain?
     
  14. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have to drill a larger opening into the concrete that will allow the drain to be attached to the vessel sink, giving clearance under it so that it fits on the countertop, not above it by a half inch or more. That would require other fixes as well. This opening would also allow the threads to attach to the tailpiece. If the sink had a clearance under it, then I could have gone with an extension piece, preventing this "adventure".

    Would someone advise on whether to use mineral oil or water when using the diamond drill bit? Normally, I use water, but I have never had to drill something 1 1/4" deep before. I am concerned about using the oil in that it may effect the finish of the concrete, requiring a re-sanding and resealing.
     
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    If you do that, and if this an above-counter vessel sink, what will hold the vessel in place?

    This sure sounds like a lot of work and expense to not buy a drain with enough thread on it. Here is how I picture it:
    img_2.png


    I see there is more than one kind. https://www.sinksgallery.com/how-to-install-a-vessel-sink
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019 at 1:20 PM
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    New England
    DO NOT use oil...it will stain the concrete. Water should be fine, and that staining will go away once the water evaporates. If you're dealing with a diamond core bit, just use a spray bottle and keep things wetted. Your challenge will be to keep it centered since there's no center bit to hold it in place. Depending on what you used for aggregate in the concrete, green concrete is still pretty soft.

    Another option is to use a non-staining plumber's putty and make a dam around the bit and keep it with some water in it. You should be fine with just a spray bottle or something to dribble some water on it.
     
  17. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

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    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    There's not enough room under the vessel sink for anything to secure the drain. Sorry :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019 at 11:22 AM
  18. Renaissance Lady

    Renaissance Lady New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    That's what I feared. The concrete was poured about 6-7 weeks ago. It's not real green, but set enough that I am crossing my fingers. I have experience drilling into tile, about this size hole, but not concrete. Champagne tonight to celebrate, or cry.

    I'll post before and after pictures later tonight.
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    What will secure the sink on top of the counter?
     
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