Very poor install by home owner.... who will pay for future damages??

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Master Plumber Mark

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Very Poor workmanship by a homeowner installing a hybrid electric water heater..... Looks like he bought it from home depot... I like the home depot bucket being used for the condensation drain..... The water lines just hanging in the wind are a huge cause for concern to me....

I wonder what will happen if one of those shark bite fittings blows off in a few weeks and totally floods their finished basement doing maybe 20k or more in damages??

Will their insurance company actually pay for all the damages they did to themselves, or will they cry foul because it was not installed properly by a plumber....???

Inquiring minds want to know... who gets to pay the bill???




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Dana

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Sad to say, I've see worse (and I'm not even in the biz.)

On another forum someone recently pointed out that "...stupidity is still insured, even if it doesn't meet code...", so yes, the insurer would almost certainly pay the claim, but the policy would be at risk of being canceled or the premiums would go up. Ultimately it's the pool of insured paying the premiums who covers the damages.
 

Treeman

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Equally sad is when I hire licensed trades people and the project is not completed to code. Last year after having a licensed plumber install a new water softener drain into existing drain lines, he attached the softener drain hose directly into the top of the drain riser without any air gap. I called the owner of this company that has a fancy fleet of trucks all plastered with advertising logos and he said they have more trouble with those air gap devices...
 

Sylvan

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Perfect timing for the posting

This morning I went to one of my accounts a 27 story CO - OP and on the 18 floor the new stockholder was notified by the tenant below there was a leak coming from their apartment

I removed the medicine cabinet so I could look behind the wall and saw a PVC waste line

I then checked the building department records for this address to see if a permit was taken out to take out a bathtub and install a shower in its place.

The job was never filed, PVC is not allowed in a residential building over 5 stories high and the previous apartment owner used a fly by night contractor or possibly did the work themselves

So now I received a retainer from the building to be their expert witness and the management company is going to sue the previous owner of the apartment

Because I also am filing the job to remove PVC their will be civil penalties filed possibly against the building and they in turn will pass all legal cost incurred to the previous owner


A job that would not have cost over $4,000 is going to be a legal nightmare for the previous owner as they will have to seek damages for their non skilled and possibly non licensed (or insured) contractor

This apartment was sold a year ago for slightly more than $960,00


Can't wait to see what happens when mold is discovered and then opening the walls will expose asbestos and air samples will have to be taken
 

Master Plumber Mark

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Equally sad is when I hire licensed trades people and the project is not completed to code. Last year after having a licensed plumber install a new water softener drain into existing drain lines, he attached the softener drain hose directly into the top of the drain riser without any air gap. I called the owner of this company that has a fancy fleet of trucks all plastered with advertising logos and he said they have more trouble with those air gap devices...

That is a debatable subject

air gaps can actually cause more harm than good .....
we attempt to use them and half of them will spit water out onto the floor
I personally have had to take out a number of them due to water spraying everywhere
except into the drain... it just depends
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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Perfect timing for the posting

This morning I went to one of my accounts a 27 story CO - OP and on the 18 floor the new stockholder was notified by the tenant below there was a leak coming from their apartment

I removed the medicine cabinet so I could look behind the wall and saw a PVC waste line

I then checked the building department records for this address to see if a permit was taken out to take out a bathtub and install a shower in its place.

The job was never filed, PVC is not allowed in a residential building over 5 stories high and the previous apartment owner used a fly by night contractor or possibly did the work themselves

So now I received a retainer from the building to be their expert witness and the management company is going to sue the previous owner of the apartment

Because I also am filing the job to remove PVC their will be civil penalties filed possibly against the building and they in turn will pass all legal cost incurred to the previous owner


A job that would not have cost over $4,000 is going to be a legal nightmare for the previous owner as they will have to seek damages for their non skilled and possibly non licensed (or insured) contractor

This apartment was sold a year ago for slightly more than $960,00


Can't wait to see what happens when mold is discovered and then opening the walls will expose asbestos and air samples will have to be taken


this is the reason we dont work in high rise condos in our town.. we dont need the headaches and half
the time the people who live there are tightwads who what something done dirt cheap by the lowest bidder...
We got named in a lawsuit one time just because our truck was at the location the same day and time a neighbor upstairs decided to flood out his condo working on his water heater...... They thought we did it .....

I dont need the headaches...
 

Sylvan

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this is the reason we dont work in high rise condos in our town.. we dont need the headaches and half
the time the people who live there are tightwads who what something done dirt cheap by the lowest bidder...
We got named in a lawsuit one time just because our truck was at the location the same day and time a neighbor upstairs decided to flood out his condo working on his water heater...... They thought we did it .....

I dont need the headaches...

I was a little concerned when we took on a fire suppression system on the 86 floor of a commercial building . The 27 and 47 buildings I thankfully never had a problem so I figured why not set my sights "higher"
 

Sylvan

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That is a debatable subject

air gaps can actually cause more harm than good .....
we attempt to use them and half of them will spit water out onto the floor
I personally have had to take out a number of them due to water spraying everywhere
except into the drain... it just depends

If you find water spraying then the problem is the installer did not use a globe valve

Very few new to the trade plumbers know why we use globe, butterfly , needle, ball or the different types of gate valves

To keep it simple globe valves are strictly for throttling when a positive shut off is not required

A gate is used for ON or OFF not for throttling

A ball valve lasts longer but aganit should not be used for throttling as it can cause noise and premature failure of the valves (See Hazen - William ) abbott flow and restrictions

I would expect more spraying from an air break ( drainage) as we do not restrict the waste discharge
 

Master Plumber Mark

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I was a little concerned when we took on a fire suppression system on the 86 floor of a commercial building . The 27 and 47 buildings I thankfully never had a problem so I figured why not set my sights "higher"


where you are located , the big buildings is what you have to deal with every day.....

I would guess that the price of insurance to work in high rise buildings is astronomical... I just dont care to drive my box trucks downtown and fight
the parking and other issues...

here is a little article about a swimming pool that flooded everyone out below ,,,, I bet you already know about this disaster.... I guess he is suing his pool company now..

https://pagesix.com/2015/03/20/david-copperfields-rooftop-pool-flooding-was-no-illusion/




https://pagesix.com/2016/08/29/david-copperfield-suing-pool-company-over-rooftop-flood/


..
 
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Sylvan

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Equally sad is when I hire licensed trades people and the project is not completed to code. Last year after having a licensed plumber install a new water softener drain into existing drain lines, he attached the softener drain hose directly into the top of the drain riser without any air gap. I called the owner of this company that has a fancy fleet of trucks all plastered with advertising logos and he said they have more trouble with those air gap devices...

The license supposed to protect the consumer not the license holder

There is recourse when a licensed professional does not follow protocol whether it is a doctor, lawyer,engineer, architect or master plumber

Over 18 years ago I had to install a backflow preventer and the all the services were below grade ( typical for NYC) to bring the new water service up to code I had to install a 90 degree fitting after the water meter bring it 2 feet above grade (15 + feet) install the backflow device and then put another 90 deg ell to bring it back to the basement and run the piping from there

This was required for both the fire and potable water supply

When your talking about 4" piping it is a considerable expense but it would be alot most costly to pay the DEP fines and still have to do it right once the inspectors came to seal the meter s

I wonder how many corners he would have cut if he had to do the following installation
 

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Sylvan

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where you are located , the big buildings is what you have to deal with every day.....

I would guess that the price of insurance to work in high rise buildings is astronomical... I just dont care to drive my box trucks downtown and fight
the parking and other issues...

here is a little article about a swimming pool that flooded everyone out below ,,,, I bet you already know about this disaster.... I guess he is suing his pool company now..

https://pagesix.com/2015/03/20/david-copperfields-rooftop-pool-flooding-was-no-illusion/




https://pagesix.com/2016/08/29/david-copperfield-suing-pool-company-over-rooftop-flood/


..


Insurance is insane as parking and dealing with superintendents in buildings

What I used to do until 3 years ago was replacing roof drains

The JR Smith 1330 IC cost around $70 each and sheet lead was .75 per pound x 3 x 3 x 4 PSF $27.00

So for about $100 I was charing $1,200 -$1,500 per drain and any work below the slab was T&M

The actual drain replacement took about 2 hours the rest was traveling time ,waiting for the freight elevators .

The job on the 86 floor took OVER 45 MINUTES to get up there because of heightened security

Fire and sprinkler jobs in Manhattan can take months to complete with tennent changes so the materials are dropped by the job site and the employees show up with public transportation and report to that job for months at a time

I have two companies.

One does strictly plumbing - gas fitting -expert witness - boiler inspections and installations and new construction and jobbing along with sewer and drain cleaning commercial, industrial,residential and residential


My other company is strictly working in Manhattan installing fire suppression systems and very little plumbing

The agent who quoted us the insurance for sprinklers I asked " is that a phone number"?


Manhattan FORGETABOUT it for jobbing as the travel time from west side to east can easily take over an hour for less than 3 miles

My 1995 Manhattan van as of last year had less than 30,000 miles

My 2002 Ford Jobbing van has under 17,000 miles

If I had a meter to count time lost to and from jobs it would be counted years not hours

I worked for three embassies and the very last time I was working for them Rudy was the mayor

The Ambassador of Benin (this is why I gave up on Manhattan ) called he had a gas leak and I drove to 125 E 38th St, New York, NY and located the leak and I went back to my van to get a wrench to shut the gas main and the van was already hooked up to a NYC tow truck


I had commercial plates and told the low life POS tow truck driver please let me at least shut the gas valve as there is a gas leak but she could care less

She said no way and I had to get one of the embassy drivers to follow the tow truck to the other side of manhattan to pay for the tow and the ticket fine . I was parked right in front of the embassy ( no standing except for diplomatic plates)

In the meantime In called the gas utility and told them what had happened

I called the mayor's office the next day and reported it

I was given a refund for the ticket not the tow $150.00

Then NYC under Mayor Rudy no longer had emergency vehicles towed as long as vans had "gas emergency" posted on them

He was a fantastic mayor

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Master Plumber Mark

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That all sounds like a huge hassle to me........
I have found it better to avoid all the
downtown condos in our city because its a no-win deal and I always feel I am losing time and money on the small jobs we called to go do..... and burning up time dealing with parking ect ect....
I pass all these calls onto other plumbers and recommend a few
just to get them out of my hair



its just another kind of life style that I
have no desire to attempt .....

as long as you make
good money doing what you do and dont go crazy dealing with it all... its a good thing....
 
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