Urgent, Please Help! Island Drain/vent Installed Correctly?

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Jerry Tang

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I have a contractor building a kichen island now and he supposed to build a vent loop. After breaking the concrete, he decided not to build the loop vent but to just build a vent 3 inches above the drain pipe (please see the pictures). Would this be ok? He said its up to code and he will install a air admittance valve in addition to this vent being install. I am so worried due to I spent $50k for this remodel. He also ensured me that it's ok due to the 2" drain is only 3 feet long from the 3" main drain which going steep downward.
 

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Smooky

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It is not a proper loop vent but if your area allows air admittance valves (AAVs) that should be fine as long as he instals it above the sani tee.
 

Jerry Tang

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It is not a proper loop vent but if your area allows air admittance valves (AAVs) that should be fine as long as he instals it above the sani tee.

He's not installing the loop vent, but a vent pipe 2" above the drain pipe and also an air admittance valve. Is this ok please?
 

Asktom

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As piped, the vent does nothing to protect the trap seal. If an AAV is acceptable in your area, then that's all you need - the "vent" could come out. If you leave it in it needs a clean-out where it turns the wall. It is hard to tell in the picture, but it seems like a proper island vent could be installed, which, in my book, would be preferable to an AAV because it protects against both positive and negative pressures and there is nothing mechanical to fail.
 

Jerry Tang

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As piped, the vent does nothing to protect the trap seal. If an AAV is acceptable in your area, then that's all you need - the "vent" could come out. If you leave it in it needs a clean-out where it turns the wall. It is hard to tell in the picture, but it seems like a proper island vent could be installed, which, in my book, would be preferable to an AAV because it protects against both positive and negative pressures and there is nothing mechanical to fail.
I put notes on the last photo hoping it's easier to see, can you please advise if this vent and air admittance valve combination would be acceptable?
 

Asktom

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The vent as shown does absolutely nothing. If AAVs are acceptable in your jurisdiction, then tear out the vent and just use that. If AAVs are not to code in your area then, to be blunt, you need someone who knows how to run a proper island vent.
 

Jerry Tang

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The vent as shown does absolutely nothing. If AAVs are acceptable in your jurisdiction, then tear out the vent and just use that. If AAVs are not to code in your area then, to be blunt, you need someone who knows how to run a proper island vent.

He insisted its ok and said the vent does its job indition to the air admittance valve. He's not willing to change
 

WJcandee

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Call your jurisdiction's plumbing inspector and ask him to swing by and tell you whether this is to code. Presumably, a professional contractor charging $50K to do a renovation will have obtained the appropriate permits...

And never believe it when someone who has a dog in the hunt (i.e. something to gain/lose) tells you that something is to Code, unless they are a top-notch professional recognized as such in your local community. Every hack will always tell you that the crappy job they are doing is "to Code".

If my fabulous licensed local plumber Jim Brown tells me that it's to Code, it's to Code. That's why he gets a lot of money for his work, and I know the pride he takes in doing things absolutely-correctly the first time. If the guy who is a "plumber" who is a friend of the gardener tells me that, naaaah.

I also don't know why people take such crap from contractors. YOU hired this guy. Presumably he gave you plans or drew plans for the permits or at least gave you a contract that said, "Install Island Sink, including loop vent and drainage" or such. Presumably, you haven't paid this guy yet. If he refuses to do it right, and apparently he originally told you he was doing a loop vent, fire him and don't pay him. And get someone else to do it who will do it right. You're not a prisoner. You have his money in your pocket (at least you should).

It may be that what he is doing is correct or acceptable in your jurisdiction and that is enough for you. You should find out for sure, from the local authorities. If it isn't, then it's up to you to take action.

Frankly, that you're telling me that the "contractor" is doing the plumbing raises all sorts of red flags for me. When we do stuff, we have the plumbing portion done by a licensed plumbing contractor, and we have the stuff inspected.
 
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Jerry Tang

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I am still hoping to get some expert advise on how this vent and AAV would do the job or how likely it would fail?
 
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hj

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An "island sink" is usually in the middle of the room. Yours looks like it is next to a wall, and if so, there was no need for any "fancy" drainage.
 

Terry

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You would either install an AAV there,
Run the vent as high as you can through the wall,
Or run a proper island vent.
At this point, an AAV is all that is really needed. The line in the ground does nothing. That would only matter if the loop had been installed.

I've seen plenty of kitchens installed with only an AAV.
 

Jerry Tang

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You would either install an AAV there,
Run the vent as high as you can through the wall,
Or run a proper island vent.
At this point, an AAV is all that is really needed. The line in the ground does nothing. That would only matter if the loop had been installed.

I've seen plenty of kitchens installed with only an AAV.

Thanks Terry, the horizontal vent there only 3 foots away from the P-Trap, and it's with 1/4" going up to the wall. Doesn't it help at all?
 

Terry

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Thanks Terry, the horizontal vent there only 3 foots away from the P-Trap, and it's with 1/4" going up to the wall. Doesn't it help at all?

What is below doesn't help at all.
The vent belongs on top of the trap arm, not two feet below.
Your handyman doesn't understand plumbing.

You can leave the pipe there, but to vent the p-trap, you will now need an AAV.
 

Jerry Tang

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What is below doesn't help at all.
The vent belongs on top of the trap arm, not two feet below.
Your handyman doesn't understand plumbing.

You can leave the pipe there, but to vent the p-trap, you will now need an AAV.


That's why the vent loop needs to go up above the p-trap
 

hj

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It appears that the "vent line" is buried IN the concrete and an inspector would probably have something to say about that because it weakens the floor at that point.
 

Asktom

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"The contractor is not willing to do anything now" (except cash the check, of course). This infers there are no permits or inspections or the contractor would not get the final word. In a goofy/mickey sort of a way the way it is run might sort of protect from positive pressure and a mechanically sound AAV would protect the trap from negative pressure. But you need to be able to clean that flat "vent" under the floor - IT NEEDS A CLEAN-OUT ! Being California, it is quite possible that the version of the UPC you are under does not allow AAVs, whether they work or not. None of this would be your problem had permits been pulled. But, since it is your problem insist on a clean-out for that flat vent under the floor.
 

Jerry Tang

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Finally, please see if it's done correctly? We found there's a 3" main pipe just 2 inches below our 2" drain pipe. Have the Lisensed plumber looked at it and said it would be good to go.
 

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