Urgent - Is it normal for plumbers to make $325/hr?

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Melinda

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I had a pipe leak right where the foundation meets the pipe. I was quoted $4300 for the job (including breaking the concrete and repair). Obviously I don't know any better - I figured insurance will take care of most of it anyway. Well the day after it was fixed the insurance adjuster said for the size of the job,it usually runs $2500. So I asked the plumber for a more detailed bill. The owner of the company called and said ''the price you were given was wrong. The plumber is new and gave you a rate based on where he used to work...we'll send you a new bill immediately''

The new bill said the master plumbers rate is $325 and hour and his apprentice is $75 an hour. I thought this was extremely high since attorneys in most cases don't even charge this much. I googled hourly rates for plumbers and got a range of $17/hr-$41/hr (20 years exp). I emailed the plumber back but never heard back. I have not paid this bill but I'm uncomfortable owing money. I am even more uncomfortable being ripped off. I emailed the local BBB to ask and sent them a copy of the bill. I also emailed a few competitors to see if they could advise but since they didn't get the work I haven't heard back from anyone. I'll upload the bill to see. Any help is greatly appreciated. I live in the metro Atlanta area if this helps at all.
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hj

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1. NO "ethical" plumber would comment on someone else's bill after the job was done because he knows absolutely NOTHING about what was done.
2. The hourly wages are about what the plumbing "gurus" say a company should charge IF they want to make a lot of money.
3. The BBB will do almost nothing for you, especially if he is not signed on with them.
4. As I told a customer over 45 years ago, "I would not even start my engine for $75.00", so you can imagine what I think when you quote $17.00 to 41.00 only 20 years ago.
 

Terry

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Anytime you have a slab leak, it's going to cost.
Not everybody likes touching them.
I would say that forty years ago, I was on a fun one. I worked for an outfit that plumbed new construction condo's.
There was water gushing from under the slab and out the side of the buildings foundation. Or maybe under it. I'm thinking...........
Anyway, we brought in a leak dectection service. They took their listening device and determined it was in the bathroom. That is where we started jackhammering. Meanwhile, the developer was telling the homeowners that the "plumbers" would be putting them up in a nice place for the evening and buying them dinner since it was our screw-up. And laughing while they said it.
At a certain point, we realized that the leak wasn't coming from the bathroom, but from the living room. We started jackhammering there, and lo and behold, we found the soft copper pipe, and the reason it had been leaking. At some point during construction, a pick had hit the pipe and put a hole in it. Then they had laid a vapor barrier of plastic over everything and poured concrete. The plastic over the pipe must of held for a long time and then let go. Now it wasn't a bad plumbing joint, which we had assumed anyway as we don't put joints below concrete slabs. All of a sudden, the general contractor realizing that the plumbers weren't buying dinner or hotel rooms looked rather sick. There was no more laughing by them, but you know............it still makes me laugh.

Sorry about the problem with your pipes. And I hope that this is the end of it. At some point you may need to do this again. I don't have a good feeling about polybutelene piping though.
PEX is good.
 

FullySprinklered

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Hi, Melinda. I've been in the city for about 10 years. Came over from Athens. There's a lot of good and useful information in Terry's post, especially concerning polybutylene and slab foundations. Scary on their own, real scary together.

The rates seem kind of high, but that being said, I would give a high figure when it comes to jackhammering a slab in a finished space, looking for a leak.

My company is a mom and pop operation with minimal overhead, so we can charge less than some of the bigger companies. Something to keep in mind next time something comes up.

In case you haven't noticed, there's a building boom in progress in N. metro Atlanta, and the talent in all trades is spread mighty thin. That means they can charge premium prices for their labor. We're turning down work right and left, even from our regular customers. Strange circumstances for us.
 

Jadnashua

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Every area's pricing is different. WHere I live, a master plumber and helper is closer to $140/hour combined, but if this is on a weekend or after hours, on the weekend, it can be double-time. SOmetimes you don't have a choice if you want it done right now, but it's always a good idea to get more than one quote. Hassle is, many of the good guys may be very busy, and either don't or won't respond.
 

Dj2

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It was an emergency. You signed for the work. Pay them.

Was the bill too high? yes it was, regardless of market conditions in Atlanta. Live and learn.

BTW, if you find a plumber at $17 an hour, HIRE HIM. Let him do the work, then hire a second plumber to re-do the work.
 

WJcandee

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Everyone seems to be missing that he cut the charge by $1020 off the original quote when he sent the revised bill, so now the $4300 agreed-to became $3280, or only $700 more than the insurance adjuster wanted to pay. Seems to me that with auto insurance the adjusters have always lowballed their repair estimates before my body shop called and explained why doing it right would cost more -- and they always end up agreeing to that amount. So what an adjuster says at first blush doesn't mean much.

To me this one is simple. You had every opportunity to investigate competitive prices BEFORE you hired this particular plumber.

You agreed to the rate. He did the job. Apparently, he did a satisfactory job, which is a good thing. And he replaced the worrisome material with the good material, at least in that section. Then AFTER the work was done, you want to renegotiate.

And good guy that he is, he sent you a bill for $3280, which is basically $700 more than what the adjuster told you was "normal" and over a THOUSAND dollars LESS than the quote THAT YOU AGREED TO.

Given that he's charging only about $700 more than the off-the-cuff estimate of the adjuster, I'm not even persuaded that his price is unreasonable. He charged you for six hours of work which presumably is actually a whole work day for two guys.

You have no idea what was involved or what anyone else would have charged and what quality of work they would have done. You also don't say whether this was a rush job or on the weekend.

In any event, you agreed to the price. The work was done, apparently-properly. Amazingly, he cut the agreed-to charge by over a thousand dollars. In my view, you are being unreasonable and any court would award him the revised amount, because it's substantially-less than what you contracted to pay. So just pay the man.

Before he slaps a mechanics lien on your home, and you are asked to pay for the charges he had to incur in doing so.

Oh, and if the insurer is giving you grief about the price, it's probably because you didn't contact them for recommendations or an inspection by an adjuster BEFORE you ordered the work to be done. Probably a good idea to do that next time. If the adjuster was so quick with a quote of what was "normal" after the job was done, presumably he would have known that before the job was contracted. Also, if you cooperate with the plumber, rather than trying to stick it to him, perhaps he can talk to your insurer and explain to them why they should reimburse you for the full amount.
 
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Craigpump

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Remember one thing about insurance companies,

They make their money collecting premiums, not settling claims. Anytime an adjuster can find a way to minimize the loss, they will. Which is why I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT submit a claim in a customers behalf. We replace a pump and wire due to lightning, the customer pays me when I'm done and then settles with the insurance company.
 

Reach4

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Note that the $325 does not go right into the plumber's pocket. The facility, management and staff, health insurance, workman's comp, liability insurance, utilities, fuel, taxes, etc of the company have to be paid for. Investors in the company reasonably expect a return on investment too. Note there was no charge for travel time either. These things have been rolled into a "burden" to the hourly rate. I am addressing the title of your post rather than the specifics.
 

hj

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All YOU as the homeowner should have to pay is the cost of actually repairing the water line and your deductible. ALL the rest of it is between the contractor and your insurance company. I think this is the first time I have EVER heard of someone installing a PB water line under the slab, and given the track record of that material, once you have one leak others are almost sure to happen. I had one company repair an outdoor line one morning and 4 hours later the homeowner called me to repair another leak 5' from the original one.
 

Melinda

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OK thanks for the information, it seems my question is being distorted. let me break it down:
Sat: plumber came out and broke into the wall of master closet, said leak is cold water pipe under foundation
Work was scheduled to be done on following Tuesday.
Tuesday came and work was done ( I liked the plumber, so I don't have an issue with him). I was told TUESDAY plumber don't deal with insurance and payment needs to be made today.
I moved $5K from my savings to my checking, and called insurance to ask if it was appropriate to pay them directly - insurance said its ok.
Adjuster came Wednesday and said for the size of the job the going rate is approx. $2500 (but good luck getting them to give me an itemized bill).
I took my chances and asked for the bill to be itemized (call from owner, reduced price blah, blah, blah).

MY ISSUE IS NOT PAYING THE MONEY, MY ISSUE IS I DON'T WANT TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF. IF IT IS NORMAL FOR PLUMBERS TO MAKE A COMBINED $400 AN HOUR - I'LL PAY IT. WHAT I DO KNOW IS MY ATTORNEY CHARGES $275/HR. SO FOR A PLUMBER TO MAKE MORE THAN AN ATTORNEY - I WAS BAFFLED.

I don't believe the rate was cut in the 1st place due to an error, I believe it was cut because it was questioned. I could be wrong - but it's my gut feeling. I also submitted an inquiry to the BBB because I don't know if this is fair or not. If it is - no one has anything to worry about. If it isn't - it's on public record!

*Please note that I emailed the plumbing company to ask about the rates and have not heard a response back
**also note that if the bill is $500 or $5000, my out of pocket is the same (deduct. + cost of pipe repair) - Again, my issue is being taken advantage of
 

Reach4

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IF IT IS NORMAL FOR PLUMBERS TO MAKE A COMBINED $400 AN HOUR
I consider your wording to be misleading, and now I think it intentional.

I have knowledge of if the price for the job was reasonable or not.
 

Reach4

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Are you saying that you did not understand that I was saying that the hourly charge is not at all what the plumber was making?

I doubt that you are that naive.
 

Jadnashua

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Some people have no tact!

The labor rate charged pays not only the salary to the worker, but worker's comp insurance, liability insurance, interest on the parts on the van, maybe tools, health insurance, retirement, gas, oil, maintenance on the van, the cellphones, the secretary taking calls, the office, the warehouse, taxes, etc...I think you get the idea. Now, IMHO, $325/hour is a bit high, nearly 2.5x what it is in my area. But, if you agreed to pay it, there is no 'standard' price, similar to when you go to buy a car. The sticker price is just a starting point, and on some cars, if they are in short supply and highly desirable, maybe much lower than the car sells for in the end. At least some of that work was on the weekend, and that typically increases the costs.
 

Melinda

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Some people have no tact!

The labor rate charged pays not only the salary to the worker, but worker's comp insurance, liability insurance, interest on the parts on the van, maybe tools, health insurance, retirement, gas, oil, maintenance on the van, the cellphones, the secretary taking calls, the office, the warehouse, taxes, etc...I think you get the idea. Now, IMHO, $325/hour is a bit high, nearly 2.5x what it is in my area. But, if you agreed to pay it, there is no 'standard' price, similar to when you go to buy a car. The sticker price is just a starting point, and on some cars, if they are in short supply and highly desirable, maybe much lower than the car sells for in the end. At least some of that work was on the weekend, and that typically increases the costs.


I will definitely shop around next time...but thank you for your reply (it helps swallow the $400/hr cost)
 

WJcandee

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Let me make it even simpler.

You got good work.

The total job price, which is what is important, does not seem to be completely out of control for the Atlanta area for quality, knowledgeable work by an actual licensed plumber (who is required to be bonded and insured unlike the typical handyman who would try to do this job). I say this having built multiple restaurants in the burbs of Atlanta.

And, again, you got good work, which is NOT a given.

I once had an insurance company tell me that they could get good lawyers to do work for them, here in New York City, for $150/hr. I told them that I would gladly send them the file back so they could put a $150/hr. lawyer on the multimillion-dollar claim in the legally-complex and factually-complex lawsuit. (Clue: I charge a lot more than $150/hr.. Partners at major law firms in NYC charge north of $800/hr., although this means that they don't really charge clock time, they only charge for the slices of the hour where they are actually performing valuable work.) Not surprisingly, they didn't take the case from me to give it to a $150/hr guy. And the amount of money they saved by having quality work done right from the beginning, leading to a minimal settlement rather than an expensive trial or an expensive settlement, more than compensated for the extra legal fees. In all professions, all professionals are not the same. Any doctor is not as good as any other doctor. Any lawyer isn't as good as any other lawyer. And any plumber sure as heck is not as good as any other plumber.

In my view, you in no way were "taken advantage of". You're letting one lowball statement from an insurance adjuster distort your thinking. So you can feel good letting it go.
 
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hj

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A lawyer died and went to heaven. When he met St. Peter, Peter said, "You don't look like you are 150 years old". The lawyer said, "I'm not, I was only 40 when I died". St. Peter said, "My mistake. I was looking at the hours you billed".
 
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